Amplifier Brands and Power--Are they really that different?

zt33l · Post by **zt33l** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:13 am

The title might be a little misleading, but it's the amplifiers that's causing me to rethink my entire system so I wasn't exactly sure what to name it and what forum would be most appropriate.

I have two different amplifiers that I am debating about using in my car, both are from very reputable manufacturers and both are 6-Channel Amplifiers; I plan on selling one and using the other. One of them is a Zapco Reference 650.6 and the other is a McIntosh MC4000M. I will only have one amplifier for my entire system and though most people will say the McIntosh is obviously the better amplifier, I don't want to use something that's not needed or might be overkill for my setup.

I plan on installing a set of Focal Utopia 165Ws in the front, a set of Focal Polyglass 165V2 in the rear (quality speakers for rear fill isn't that important, is it?)--as for subwoofer(s), it's still undecided. If it matters, the vehicle it will be going into will be a 1999 Mercedes CLK320.

For the Zapco Reference 650.6, it's rated at 6x50watt at 4ohms. If it matters, the amplifier supports a balanced input and will receive the signals through 2 Symbilink SLB-U units. The Focal Utopia's are rated already at 100watt RMS and I have heard that the more power you give them, the better. I talked to various Zapco dealers and they told me that this is "50watt Zapco Power", which is supposedly better. Are there any truths to their claims or is 50watt RMS really just 50watt RMS--in that case, I think I would be seriously under powering these speakers (the Focal Utopias) if using the Zapco amplifier. Is this really just a fancy 300watt amplifier? Can it actually power a entire system (including a subwoofer)?

For the McIntosh MC4000M, that sucker is a beast--power-wise and sadly, size-wise. Not taking into account the size, the amplifier is rated at 4x100watt, 2x300watt at 4ohms for a total of 1000watt RMS. This amplifier will provide the optimal wattage I need to run all of my speakers, but is this really needed? Will a Alpine 1000watt RMS Amp or a Kenwood 1000watt RMS Amp provide just the same amount of power and sound just as nice?

Does brand really matter when talking about SQ or Power? Is 50watt of "Zapco Power" really any better then your standard 50watt from Alpine? Would the McIntosh amplifier be a better choice for my setup?

After fully purchasing my system and getting ready to install everything, I'm really questioning "does certain brands produce cleaner power" or "goes higher price items correlate with quality". Will a better brand amplifier make it sound any better? From a price-wise perspective, it would probably be smarter to use the Zapco amplifier and sell the McIntosh amplifier but what do you guys think? If you guys didn't notice, I'm willing to spend quite a bit for SQ--I love my music clean and detailed.

Any comments? Recommendations?

sinister audio · Post by **sinister audio** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:04 am

i highly doubt if the powers were equal or with in 15 watts or so that you would ever notice a difference between zapco and mcintosh

subster87 · Post by **subster87** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:13 am

Actually in related that zapco and brands like it, really do produce a cleaner un modifiied signal. For SQ thats wonderful. Now is a zapco fifty watts better than an alpine 50 watts, if it is not an under rated amplifier whcih i doubt it is, yes 50 watts is 50 watts, but the quality sound wise comming from those 50 watts is going to be different. The zapco would produce cleaner sound previously stated. Now power wise i would go with the mcintosh. It will give you double the power and you can be gentler on your gains. The Zapco would stuggle in my opinion to power such a good set of components. And if you put out that much money on your components dont sell yourself short powering them!
Now if pricing isnt a big deal, looking at your equipment from a price stand point, I would say you would definetly make money selling the mcintosh, but that zapco would sell for a good amount to!
I would go with mcintosh for the simple purpose of you need that extra power to make you components really shine, giving your components only 50% of the power would just be wrong after paying the amount you did i nthe first place. And you paid that money for the sound quality so why not take full advantage of it?
And off topic question for you, you have all this worry of your amplifier but how well will they be installed? and are you doing the install yourself? More important than the amp in this type of install is the quality of install you do on the speakers themselves. You can give them 50 watts installed wrong and it will sound as bad as the 100 watts. If this is a self install remember there is no such thing as to much sound deadening!!!!
I hope ive been of some sort of help, good luck with this keep us updated. I think it will sound awesome. And we would be more than happy to help on subwoofers to if you have a size idea, and box size. Possibly price range and amount of power? With the mcintosh you could run a good size sub with 600 rms to one.
O yes lastely many will say in a SQ setup forget the back speakers, you wont be hearing them any way. As stated by many the ideal SQ system is as little amount of speakers as possible. One tweeter and a woofer is ideal on each side of you. THats impossible in a car, but certainly most of the time simplify for SQ. Great front stage selection, great amps, finish it with a great sub and think about forgetin the rear speakers, unless of course you are going for a 5.1 surround sound setup, which in turn many feel stink out loud in a car enviroment.

subster87 · Post by **subster87** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:14 am

sinister audio wrote:i highly doubt if the powers were equal or with in 15 watts or so that you would ever notice a difference between zapco and mcintosh

i say go and give the recommended power, hes looking at 50 watts difference not merely fifteen right?

sinister audio · Post by **sinister audio** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:32 am

ya i know i was just stating for comparing amps. id go with the mcintosh just because of power, but if they were equal you would never notice a difference in amps and if u did id call u a liar.

subster87 · Post by **subster87** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:35 am

haha i can hear the difference in slight amounts of power, hell no, i noticed my sub being changed from 4ohms to 1ohm today, lol big difference in power. Basically off topic though. Yeah well i would take either amp if it wasnt a power restraint for sure, two very expensive very nice amps!

zt33l · Post by **zt33l** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:58 am

So from a power standpoint, if they really produce the specs they publish, the only reason to go with a more expensive, brand name amp is that generally their components are of higher quality and the unit itself is more solidly built? If that's the case (which from what I have been reading, it is), I really wonder is a companies' "sound quality" is correlates with their quality, at least when talking about amplifiers. Since all brands probably all have generally a low failure rate (i mean, most companies probably don't have more then 5% defective, random guess) why do there reputations vary so greatly?

sinister audio · Post by **sinister audio** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:32 am

well with 2 high end amps like that its pretty hard to tell the difference. both are built very well with very nice comps inside them. now if u were going with let a kenwood amp or a mcintosh well lets just say if u need help on that u shouldnt be allowed to own a mcintosh amp.

cargodz · Post by **cargodz** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:00 am

When comparing amps, build quality is the issue when comparing something higher grade like Zapco, Mcintosh, to say good like Alpine, to lower levels like Boss Audio... Better quality in materials and build labor make the difference more than the sound quality itself.
In other words, the failure rate of an amp is only as good as its build and that is why the differed ratings.

smoker · Post by **smoker** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:27 am

if it were me id run the mcintosh but i think more precisely what the underlying thing here is whether or not the added power of the mcintosh will give you the extra dynamic range that you would expect from more power. with that big an increase i would say yes it will but things to take into consideration are the speakers as well. they are only going to move a certain amount and make a certain amount of noise before they start to fall apart but i dont think the mcintosh is extreme by a long shot and probably powers the subs better