Richard Clark and capacitors

nist7 · Post by **nist7** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:16 pm

So what is this thing that I keep seeing about Richard Clark and his love/hate of capacitors?

Did he used to endorse them and now thinks they are absolute pieces of junk?

William from NOLA · Post by **William from NOLA** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:18 pm

It's just a quote from an old thread from another board. The thread covered an experiment/test of capacitors. I just thought it was funny. He said mainly that the cheaper capacitors of today aren't worth much because they are just more of a drain on an electrical system than an actual aid.

Post by **GlassWolf** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:06 am

RC was a world class IASCA competitor back in the 90s when I was competing. I was on the same circuit as him but a different power class. He has a fairly famous Grand National he set up with two subs, two midbass, and two HLCDs which was in the unlimited power class and won just about every event it came near. He's a very wise, smart, and opinionated individual who competed for Orange County Speakerworks.
Anyway, he ran capacitors under the hood of that GN back in the day, and he has very objectively pointed out that capacitors are less than useless to bolster the voltage in a 12VDC electrical system. People point out that he's contradicting his own practices since he used to use capacitors in his own car, to which he points out that it was a gimmick to gain points in IASCA competitions on install innovation. He knew very well then and now that they served no real purpose, but impressed the less educated judges.

Fishy · Post by **Fishy** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:42 pm

Don't they slightly help an amp handle transients that require sudden "bursts" of current? I thought I noticed a difference in "drum hits" when I added my cap, but maybe that was just my subconcious mind justifying the recent expenditure.

I mean does increased transient response really have anything to do with stabilizing voltage in a car's electrical system(my dome light still blinks), and isn't a stiffening cap just an added energy resevoir placed close to the amp where it can do its job best by supplying large amounts of current for very short periods of time with minimal voltage drop? Seems we had this discussion before on the eCoustics forum a while back and I thought you argued that caps did help in this manner, however slightly.

Well I guess I could have a digital 2 farad cap for sale minus the voltmeter which now sits in my dash. Man, what an awfully expensive digital voltage gauge/distro block.

-Fishy

Fishy · Post by **Fishy** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:56 pm

Also, I think I read a discussion about that particular "RC" test and I thought it was a comparison between your typical .5F-3F electrolytic capacitor and those expensive "hybrid super caps" that utilize a combination of electrolytic and carbon based caps in one bank.

I thought the conclusion was that these high-Farad hybrid guys weren't any more beneficial than your run of the mill electrolytic.

Maybe they were both equally useless.

:)

-Fishy

lotas · Post by **lotas** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:00 am

fishy, do you have a high output alternator, or any upgraded electrical system? also what are you running, how many watts? They lose their value if your cars electrical system cannot supply power to it, it just becomes another thing that is drawing current that cant be supplied.

Fishy · Post by **Fishy** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:23 am

Lol, read this:

http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimatebb. ... p=2#000042

There's your quote William. Seems like he still likes the theory ok and was possibly referring to the super duper stuff as "pieces of junk". He sure does seem pretty vague about the benefits of either, however. The use of "could be beneficial" and "only 2 would stand a chance of benefitting a system" kinda makes me think I might've wasted 150 bucks on mine.

It seems not all caps are built alike. Maybe I lucked into a good one. Hmmm... mine's all chrome, a funky shape, and has "Tsunami" written on it.

I'm not too optimistic.

-Fishy

Fishy · Post by **Fishy** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:42 am

I did the alternator(MCReman 170 amp) before I did the cap, but I'm only running 4 gauge(about an 8 foot run) to around 960 watts RMS of which I know I'm never using for any extended period of time. I don't often listen to THAT type of music, plus I hate distortion.

After reading about that low impedance dealie I may very well upgrade my cap to ground, amp(s) to ground, and cap to amp(s) wires at least. If you imagine a cap as a mini power supply for transients that makes sense. Of course bigger alternator to cap and ground wires would get that thing recharged quicker as well.

Crap, more money dumped into that black hole of a car audio system. 1/0 gauge here I come.

Knukonconcepts the cheapest?

-Fishy

Post by **GlassWolf** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:33 am

the supercaps have a very high ESR which makes them useless for these applications.
a smaller electrolytic like the 1-3Fd ones have much lower ESR when made properly, which means they'll respond much more quickly.
They can help transient response to the amp IF the electrical system can already handle the current draw, in my opinion.
In other words if your alternator is already big enough, and your voltage rails don't sag, the capacitor(s) will supply current to the amplifiers' power supplies microseconds faster than it would take for the alternator to respond in a similar manner, as the capacitors have a low ESR and are physically close to the amplifiers.
Mind you, this doesn't contradict RC. He's still right that, as I've been saying here for some time, that capacitors aren't a replacement for an adequate charging system, and they won't make up for the need for a larger alternator.

William from NOLA · Post by **William from NOLA** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:12 am

Knukoncepts probably isn't the cheapest, but it's the cheapest good quality cabling.

Black hole lol

So I presume that 3 Fd should be the largest anyone goes?