Sorry to detract...but did anyone else notice that spkrman is back?
In any event, I will commend William for taking the effort to make a new list based upon component types. I do not have any major disagreements and I think we should only limit ourselves to these four main categories as it has turned out to be quite a project already.
Justin from Detroit wrote:Well my Pioneer AVIC-N1 isn't the premier line, and tell me what's wrong this amazing piece of electronics?
Your amazing piece of electronics has 2 volt preouts.
It doesnt have enough integrated features... if I'm shelling out 2k on a dam cd player, i want more processing than the nearly lowest line of pioneer decks give.. wtf, 3 band eq?
Navigation, dvd... cool... but deck features wise its no better than the second to lowest pioneer deck....
HARDLY amazing... except for perhaps the price tag!
Scarrell wrote:Pioneers Premier line of cd players are very respectable... there isnt a thing wrong with them,.... their other stuff isnt that great (i.e. Wal Mart stuff)... if you want Pioneer, the only thing worth it from them is their Premier stuff... their other stuff is decent/ok.. and will get the job done just fine.. its just there is better out there for the money and their non Premier stuff id give a 3-5 rating out of 10.
The "premier" line is what the STANDARD line should be.
Unless you BABY your cd's they will skip, its just sad... and this is true on *all* the pioneer decks, from the cheapest to the most expensive. Perhaps not the very expensive one (not the n1, the "SQ" deck they had... forget the name).
THey ALL have weak preouts.. even the "6.5v" 860/960mp. Its about equal to a typical 4 volt preout.
The 860/960 do have alot of control over the sound though, but they still have that crap @$$ cd player that throws a fit if you have even a minute scratch.
spkrman wrote:Your amazing piece of electronics has 2 volt preouts.
It doesnt have enough integrated features... if I'm shelling out 2k on a dam cd player, i want more processing than the nearly lowest line of pioneer decks give.. wtf, 3 band eq?
Navigation, dvd... cool... but deck features wise its no better than the second to lowest pioneer deck....
HARDLY amazing... except for perhaps the price tag!
I'm pretty sure anyone willing to spend $2K on it could spare the extra few bucks for an external Equalizer and line driver.
I have a suggestion. Since this list is mainly intended to help the newbie out when it comes to making a purchase maybe it would simplify things a whole lot to include only those products which are available for purchase new or refurbished.
I'm not sure I'd be willling to fork out cash for something used on e-bay that originally had less than stellar performance as shipping can become a major portion of some of the less expensive product's prices. Maybe a separate "Old School" list of "good" and "excellent" items could be compiled for the bargain hunter. IMO purchasing ANY used driver off e-bay is a very iffy endeavor, unless one plans to recone from the get go so I'd probably leave those out too. Used H/U's scare me as well, but just about any amplifier can be repaired at a reasonble cost.
It seems to me the original list is in danger of becoming too complex and extensive.
Fishy wrote:I have a suggestion. Since this list is mainly intended to help the newbie out when it comes to making a purchase maybe it would simplify things a whole lot to include only those products which are available for purchase new or refurbished.
I'm not sure I'd be willling to fork out cash for something used on e-bay that originally had less than stellar performance as shipping can become a major portion of some of the less expensive product's prices. Maybe a separate "Old School" list of "good" and "excellent" items could be compiled for the bargain hunter. IMO purchasing ANY used driver off e-bay is a very iffy endeavor, unless one plans to recone from the get go so I'd probably leave those out too. Used H/U's scare me as well, but just about any amplifier can be repaired at a reasonble cost.
It seems to me the original list is in danger of becoming too complex and extensive.
-Fishy
That was my original intention, to get rid of the older products not easily found, but then after thinking about it, it's best to have them on there. At least it is stated where the good older products are.
To all:
Should I add the numbers to each name with a key at the top? I just hope it doesn't make it too confusing. I would sort it by number, but have the number precede the name. Good idea? or put it after?
It only serves to rank each brand within their respective categories and this can get very controversial.
As it is known, the list is intended for car audio novices. If we tried to put a brand as #1 in each category, then they will develop the mentality that brand A must be better than brand B when in fact both are of high quality.
For example, let's assume that the following companies are ranked #1 in each of their categories:
HU: Alpine
Comp: Rainbow
Amp: McIntosh
Sub: Adire
And after the car audio novice reads this, he/she will automatically think that the "best"' system must consist of these brands and nothing "less".
I like it the way it is (keep it simple stupid) (also know as army proof) Seperate it into head unit, speaker, and so on, give the brand name and then a number giving the respected peices status. That way its easy for someone to understand, and very easy to modify.
I don't see a problem with a few old brands on there either. If someone is going to by something on ebay, and they come across an old model orion or sony, they will know they are getting a decient peice of equipment. Isn't that what the list is for in the first place??
