Kinda makes ya think

[OnYrMrk]

like Professor Dumbledor in Harry Potter put it so eloquently:

"There will come a time to choose between what is right, or what is easy."

I fear that America will take the easy way out.

[Darthness]

well there are talks of as much as a 50,000 troop increase.. not that i'm for that, but if it'll get us out of there faster without looking like huge jackasses and causing more hate for us, maybe its the answer.

although i have to say, the idea of a huge withdrawl like john edwards wants is certainly not the answer... we either need a huge increase or gradual withdrawls.

[OnYrMrk]

take addiction for example:

Those that withdrawl cold turkey will return in some capacity

but a gradual withdrawl will help the healing of the body or country.

[Bwcad1]

yashish madia!

[JeremyC]

although i have to say, the idea of a huge withdrawl like john edwards wants is certainly not the answer... we either need a huge increase or gradual withdrawls.

I love you DARTH. Will you have my babies?

Bill, Joe, Don't worry I love you guys too.

[CaptainPioneer]

I think we need to learn from Vietnam. Personally we are in a similar scenario... We went into a country that has been traditionally non-democratic and western idealogically opposed. The people will continue to want us out of their country, and will not want any more foreign powers ruling them. We are trying to impress upon them a democratic government that is not part of their countries heritage. Unfortunately, there is little we can do given the present situation. A gradual withdrawl would be the only correct answer. If we are trying to heal the wounds (feelings) of anti-American sentiment, this is somethign we will not accomplish

Most likely after we have fully withdrawn from Iraq, the new president, or what ever you call him, will most likely be deposed in a coup leading to an installment of a familiar dictatorial regime.

Henry Kissinger said that there are certainties in war, and one of which is that a President/Nation cannot win a war when the people do not support it fully. Given the sittuation in America right now, Bush has no chance of winning in Iraq and will not even if Osama Bin Laden is captured. He needs to make the correct decision and withdraw troops from Iraq, just like Nixon did in Vietnam.

[ZeroAccess]

As sad as it is to say, Captain may be right. This war like all others everyone must remember is about politics. Pure and simple. If America would have went in and did a clean sweep quick and easy it would have sent a message to all the other countries that we are still on top and can do what we want (Bargaining Power). Unfortunately this war has made us look like bumbling idiots as a nation. I don't care if your pro or anti bush you'll simply agree that this war did not go as planned for anyone.

Now with that being sad I personally see Bush sending in more troops to try and get some good news back from this war deal (when voting time comes around tons of troops will come home,papers will say we've won,etc,etc. If a new republican president is nominated they may start doing gradual withdrawls because they don't want the republican party to look bad. Democrat goes into office...they'll say the republicans were fools and this war will look REALLY bad beause they'll withdrawl and make a coup. Of couse they will be more tactical about it incase anything goes wrong they can blame it on the guy before them.

[kevinberry1]

Interesting how some things have progressed during the past year-and-a-half

President/Iraq war thread

[CaptainPioneer]

well that is true, but in all probability, The next president will be a democrat. Republican candidates face way too much oppostion because of the Bush administrations faults and short comings. A swift attack by a nation does not always result in a world view of superiority, in fact it usually works against them. For instance, look at Germany when it invaded Poland, or Russia when they entered Afghanistan. World Opinion is fickle and it all depends on what we think they will think. I know that is a very vague expression, but all politicians and officials from our central government do is really guess. They guess off of what information they think is true, its almost never a certainty.

The most important thing now is to not focus on the shortcomings in the start of the war, but to focus on the future of our nation and to find the most logical way for our nation to survive. Whether that be to withdraw or continue, fighting.

Withdrawing forces means greater world, and domestic opinion of our government and nation, but will most likely bring a economic slump.

Committing more forces will certainly batter our image as a nation even further, but might, might give us a strong war-time economy.

One thing is true about our Nation. We have never been quick to apologize to those who we have wronges. (It took us over 80 years to apologize for slavery)
The only person (President) who ever got it right about being humble and to apologize when he knew he was beat was John F. Kennedy. Although he may not have had the most outstanding morals of all presidents, he knew the right thing to say at all times

[Jonathan]

how can you love him after he has screwed our country to hell?

I suppose that you can completely turn a country around overnight? Foolish Americans blamed Herbert Hoover for the Great Depression when it was actually Calvin Coolidge that caused it, because Hoover was the one that was in power at the time. Like said above, it was the easy way out.

Three points:

1: It takes YEARS to turn an economy around. The state of the economy now reflects upon what was done DURING THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. We were in a recession before Bush was elected, primarily due to increased taxes and a failure to stimulate what was at the time a booming economy due to the "dot-com era" as well as seeing benefits of Reaganomics taking effect (<-like it or not, it works). It's finally starting to turn around now, but it'll be stitched up just in time for the next president to take credit for it because people are sheep. If things take a turn for the worse and the economy tanks during the next presidential term, that's when you can blame Bush.

2: A president can in no way control gas prices or crude prices. ALL politicians are tied into and supported by oil companies. Bush can't wave some magic wand and say jack the prices up. A president can, however, release oil reserves to increase supply, thus temporarily lower cost. Clinton did it to get his approval up before the 1996 election, actually. The reason gas is high is that all the oil companies met up and decided to be greedy assholes simultaneously. Crude is going up, any change in pricing is the perfect opportunity to increase your profit margin. On top of all other excuses, having a President blatantly tied in with oil industries is the perfect excuse, right? Hey, it's working, just blame Bush for it all. One man can do it all, apparently.

3: The war, that is Bush and the congress of that time. Have a field day on it. It needed to be done, not necessarily in the manner taken forth, but it had to happen sometime after being neglected for so long.

I typically don't get into Democrat vs. Republican because it's like asking if you'd rather be shot in the head or the chest, where the the ideal outcome is neither, but it's not an option. Given the choice I tend to prefer Republican for the benefits to the economy plus the fact that there are a lot of liberals that support things I don't agree with morally. But the party system is the #1 problem with our government.