Whats good?

[Darthness]

I'm thinking about a new CD player. i've decided that improving on/redoing my system was going to be a "graduaton" reward to myself. I Want to move away from pioneer. i was thinking Eclipse or JVC... but the only JVC's that i want are the ones with the screens (Although my friend works at bestbuy - maybe i could get him to buy it for me. he said he bought his cheap!)

so could anyone throw some units at me? looking for something with 6v or better pre-outs, cd player, removable face, and any other features that you think i should need :P

[Justin from Detroit1]

Well if you NEED a removeable face, then you don't want an Eclipse. They have ESN, which is awesome, if you buy from an authorized dealer. If it gets stolen within a year of purchase, you call them and they send you a new one FREE. But, the faceplate doesn't come off.

I couldn't be happier with my Eclipse CD8445. The nicest HU I have ever owned, and I have owner probably around 12 or 13. The ygo for around $300 on eBay, which is well worth it. 8v preouts, 7 band eq, etc etc.

I also have a JVC AVX2. It is pretty sweet that it has a built in screen w/ DVD player, but it only has 2v preouts. I'm sure you just saw my thread about needing an eq/line driver. This unit has a nice EQ built in, but the 2v preouts are horrible. My gain is literally almost all of the way up on my amps. I needed the line driver to change that.

Alpine seems to be going downhill the past few years, so PERSONALLY I would avoid them. I have had wayyy too many issues with noise in my Pioneer HU's. Almost ever one I have owned has introduced a lot of noise into my systems. I actually called the owner of Elevation yelling at him how his amps are noisy as hell, come to find out it was my Pioneer HU causing all of the noise, not the amps at all lol.

For the money, I don't think it gets any better then Eclipse. I'm not sure how great their new models are, or if they have gone down in quality (I doubt it). But look into Eclipse. If you can afford the few bucks more (HU's usually don't have a HUGE markup on them, so the difference from shop to eBay usually isn't TOO much), get it from a shop so that you canget the 1 year theft warranty. Plus if it gets stolen, call Eclipse and have them deactivate it so the thief can never use it again :)

[JeremyC]

Actually most of the 2006 eclipse head unit do have detatachable face plates, and the ESN set up.

Other than that, Justin is dead on. Eclipse has some of the best head units for the money. Excelent SQ, and very easy to use. Yeah the manuals suck, but thats why you have me to talk you thru the EISERV stuff.

[Justin from Detroit1]

They added detachable face plates? That's cool. Finding any information about any Eclipse product is always hard, whether it is a HU, sub, or amp lol. But hey, it is damn good stuff at least.

Checking out the 06 line up, it looks like the CD5000 is the match for the CD8445. Looks like they changed the knobs (the only thing I don't like about the 8445. When you are driving on a bumpy road, it is hard as hell to go forward or back one track, it always goes more.)

[JeremyC]

Same with the 8455. Thats the only thing I don't like. To bad you can't switch it to the up down buttons right next to the knob.

[geolemon]

so could anyone throw some units at me? looking for something with 6v or better pre-outs, cd player, removable face, and any other features that you think i should need :P

Why 6v pre-outs? Do you have a noise floor issue? If not, they don't benefit you at all. My old Sony Mobile ES deck (a favorite of IASCA competitors of a few years back) had about 0.5v pre-outs, and it lived in the winners circle plenty - in competition where noise floor is actually measured on the score sheet. ]One thing that I would suggest:[/i]
Built in crossovers.
These are always defeatable, so they aren't any harm if you don't have a use for them - but when it's time to add a sub amp - bang! Plug it into the sub outputs, and you can not only control the sub Xover settings from the HU, but you also get a "sub level" control, so you don't need to run a remote gain knob right from the amp - it's built into the HU.

...then, when it's time to add an amp to your front stage... you can again set the crossover right from the HU - and be assured that it's working as a true "crossover" (meaning the crossover points truly match and compliment each other - something you can't accomplish with two discrete amps with separate onboard filters ).

Typically, you can get into a HU that plays CD's as well as MP3's, with at least front/rear/sub RCA outputs, detachable face, and a more advanced level of features including onboard crossover and DSP, for around or under $200 even in a retail shop.

As far as what "features" you should be looking for...
Are you an up/down buttons, or rotary knob type of person?
Are you more interested in ergonomics, or features?
Are you interested in simple controls, or complex ones?
Do you want a simple, readable display? Or a big, flashy graphic/animated one?
Do you want a look that matches your dashboard, or want your HU to "stand out"?
Are you more interested in reliability, or performance?
Would you rather have a HU with an advanced CD transport, or one that can play MP3's?

There's a lot that can differentiate one HU from another - but a TON of it is personal preference that we can't really guide you on, unfortunately.

[Darthness]

why i want higher voltage - right now i'm having the same issue just has, i belive, i'm not entirely sure how much HU voltage affects this but my gain is currently set to about 3/4 of the way up. calculated 37.4v and tuned it while playing a 50Hz test tone with a DMM

to answer your questions...
-knob
-rotary is nice.
-ergonomics
-simple
-simple& readable
-i'd rather it match the dash, yes
-i'd like a healthy mix.
-i like to make mp3 discs with a bunch of songs, so im going to say mp3.

[geolemon]

why i want higher voltage - right now i'm having the same issue just has, i belive, i'm not entirely sure how much HU voltage affects this but my gain is currently set to about 3/4 of the way up. calculated 37.4v and tuned it while playing a 50Hz test tone with a DMM

Take a deep breath, put the coffee down.
Have another go at it.

I'm not sure what issue "just has" is - the sentence doesn't make sense.

I also don't know why you would use JL's "measure it with a voltmeter" technique for setting your gain control unless you have a JL amp (they know their voltages ](did you use a test tone recorded at a -0dB level? That's absolutely critical to know, and difficult to find )[/i], but more fundamentally is a pretty rube-goldberg way of addressing something related to sound...

It sounds to me like there's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the gain knob does on your part.

Think of the gain knob as a doorway, with an adjustable top threshhold.
If a tall person was going to walk into the doorway, you could turn the gain knob in one direction, and effectively raise the top of the door so that the tall person didn't lop their head off as they walked through.
(that's literally what happens when you "clip" an amplifier - the gain is set improperly for the size of the signal going in - and you "lop" the part of the signal off that won't "fit through the door". )
And if a short person was going to walk through the doorway, you could lower the threshhold of the door to their height, custom-tailoring the doorway to them.
(You ideally size the threshold to your signal, so that the amplifier knows what size signal to apply to it's standard - as in "not going to change no matter what your gain knob is set to" - output voltage - ie, power.)

The key is this:
Every amplifier on the market is built to accept a range of voltages, as low as 0.5 or even 0.25 in most cases, up to 5v, 6v, or even higher.
You want a voltage level that'll land IN that range, not outside of it, or you'll have another fundamental incompatibility.

Where the gain knob ends up adjusted to simply depends on the voltage level you are sending it - high isn't necessarily bad, if that's appropriate. Low isn't necessarily bad, if that's appropriate. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an adjustment.

So my point is...

to answer your questions...
-knob
-rotary is nice.
-ergonomics
-simple
-simple& readable
-i'd rather it match the dash, yes
-i'd like a healthy mix.
-i like to make mp3 discs with a bunch of songs, so im going to say mp3.

...take THIS list of features, and go shopping (I'd suggest adding the crossover and multiple pre-outs to the list ), and don't get hung up on RCA voltage. All HU these days have very high voltage - I haven't seen a HU under 2v even recently!

[Darthness]

it was a 0dB test tone.... and i did NOT use JL's . there was a formula in another thread that i used. Also, my amp accepts from .2v to 9v.

btw, that first sentence was supposed to be "justin has" sorry....

and i'd appreciate it if you did not talk to me like i'm dumb. thanks :)

edited: wtf.

[geolemon]

it was a 0dB test tone.... and i did NOT use JL's . there was a formula in another thread that i used. Also, my amp accepts from .2v to 9v.

btw, that first sentence was supposed to be "justin has" sorry....

and i'd appreciate it if you did not talk to mnumberse like i'm dumb. thanks :)

Well, that's some key information!

Justin's problem has to do with noise...
...and noise isn't "fixed" by a higher voltage level.

Noise is entering the signal path somehow - the only way to eliminate it is to eliminate the source of the noise.

Running a higher voltage level will only mask the noise to some degree - but ONLY if the noise is entering the signal path as induced noise into your RCA cables. If the HU itself is noisy (as he seems to have identified), the voltage level of the outputs is irrelevant. It makes no difference if you've got 1v outputs that have 10% worth of noise on them, or 8v outputs that have 10% worth of noise on them - in the end, you still have 10% noise.

The ONLY benefit to higher voltage levels on your RCA cables, is for noise that is induced into the RCA cables - and it's not a fix, it's a duct-tape band-aid. Make sense?

Your amp accepts input voltage as low as 0.2v, so 6v is hardly a requirement.

Why narrow your list of potentially suitable head units?

That's why I regurgitated your other list of "what I want in my HU" back at you - based on what you yourself said (you made that list), that's what you want to shop for.