Amp. Help.....I'm lost

[RaveN1814]

Ok, this is my first post. I've already done EXTENSIVE reading on this forum and I now know a LOT more than what I used to know.........which was nothing. Great info so far guys. Anyways, I'm still a bit hazy when it comes to amps. I think I have part of it figured out. Like if you want to run some components up front and some 6x9's in the rear you would need a 4 channel amp; one channel per speaker.....right? And you'd need to make sure the amp can handle the speakers. Say for example the components up front have a RMS power range of 70W and the 6x9's in the rear have a RMS power range of 55W. All speakers having an impedance of 4 ohms. So with this example, would a 4 channel amp that pushes 70W RMS per channel at 4 ohms be good?? Or would that be too much for the 6x9's (55wrms) in the rear???? Or is there a way to limit the amount of power certain channels are getting? Like the max in this example is 70w rms per channel at 4 ohms for this amp, but could you regulate the amp and have two channels getting 70wrms at 4 ohms and the other two only getting 55wrms at 4 ohms???

Ok, that was a lot of questions, and to make things worse, thats the stuff I kinda understand too, lol. The subs is where I get a little more lost. Example: You've got two 10's in a sealed box. Both are dual voice coil 4 ohm. 500W RMS each. Now, what kind of power do you need in an amp for this. I know that you would need a mono amp (one channel) for the subs. Also, I know that if you were to wire these two subs in parallel they would present a 2 ohm load to the amp. Also, you could wire them in series and they would then present an 8 ohm load to the amp. (I think?) Now what would be better, to wire the subs in parallel or series?? If you wired them in parallel it would be a 2 ohm load. So in that case would you need an amp that could push 1000W RMS at 2 ohms for these subs??? I don't have anything stereo wise in my car yet at all. I'm trying to do a LOT of research before I go out and spend my money. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. As you can probably tell I'm still rather new to all of this. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Edit: Arrrggghhhh, more confusion for me now. Just found out that depending on the way you wire the two coils on a dual voice coil sub, it changes the load presented to the amp. Like if you wired the two voice coils in parallel on a 4 ohm dual voice coil sub it would present a 2 ohm load to the amp. And if you wired the coils in series it would present an 8 ohm load to the amp. So, say you wire the coils in parallel, on both subs. That would then be a 2 ohm load per sub, then you wire the subs together in parallel now it's a 1 ohm load on the amp??? So would you need an amp that could push 1000W RMS at 1 ohm for this setup??? Ahhh, I'm lost. HELP!

[Robert Wollenberg]

Well, you're on the right track for the most part. The important thing you need to ask yourself is, what do you want to accomplish with your stereo? What type of music do you listen to and do you want it to sound great, just be loud as hell, boom like there's no tomorrow or what? And, how much money are you willing to spend on the whole system? Are you willing to build it over time one piece at a time or do you want it all at once? The most important thing once you decide all that is to come up with a plan that is going to work for you and then stick to the plan.

Given your plan, certain speakers may be better than others ... certain amps are going to be better than others. They need to be picked out together, basically. Speakers have the ability to hand certain amounts of power. Speakers also show a level of impedence to the amplifier. Amplifiers have the ability to put out a certain amount of power at certain levels of impedence. I hope I didn't confuse you there. Anyway, just make sure the rms power output of the amp is within the safe power handling of the speakers, and at the same time, make sure the impedence of the speakers is within the safe operating range of the amplifier.

As far as the voice coils of the subs or multiple subs, two four ohm voice coils wired in series would amount to 8 ohms. If you wire them in paralell, you'll get 2 ohms. Now, if you take two subs, both with dual 4 ohm voice coils, you can wire the voice coils of each sub in series so each sub is at 8 ohms, but then paralell each of those to the amp and bring the load back to a 4 ohm load. Does that make sense?

As for the 6x9 speakers in the back of a car ... I'd go without them. Save yourself that extra money or put it toward a better amp and/or speakers for the front. That's my personal take. If I run back speakers at all it will be off deck power and even then I fade to the front to drop their out put a bit. I don't like rear speakers much.

ok, next round of questions. :)

[RaveN1814]

Ok, what is the best way to wire up the subs? Or is it just a choice depending on the type of amp your getting? Now, for some more details on my situation.

What type of music do you listen to and do you want it to sound great, just be loud as hell, boom like there's no tomorrow or what?

Electronica, and lots of it. Also, a lot of rock too. I want it to sound good. I'm not into "boomy" sytems, just good bass when its needed. Nor do I want loud as hell. Just a good, nice, fair quality system.

And, how much money are you willing to spend on the whole system? Are you willing to build it over time one piece at a time or do you want it all at once?

No limit really on money. Not saying that I have it, cuz I don't, I'm broke right now]The most important thing once you decide all that is to come up with a plan that is going to work for you and then stick to the plan.[/QUOTE]

Ok, game plan is this:

Components up front
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fus ... ct_ID=2457

6x9's in the rear
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fus ... ct_ID=2454

Two 10's in a sealed box
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fus ... ct_ID=2531

and two amps to run it all, one 4 channel for the comps and 6x9's and one mono for the sub.

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fus ... ct_ID=3730
.....would this be a good 4 channel amp for this setup. Also, can you regulate cetain channels down. Cuz the RMS rating on the 6x9's I want is 55 and this amp puts out 70W RMS per channel at 4 ohms. So, could I regulate it down to 55W RMS at 4 ohms for two channels for my two 6x9's??

still, what kind of amp do I need for those two 10's???

[Robert Wollenberg]

The best way to wire the subs is within the operating limits of the amp. If your amp is only stable at 4 ohms, you don't want to give it a 2 ohm load. That will hurt it.

I'd go with a sealed box and ample power. Two tens is good. All the equipment you have picked out looks good. You shouldn't have any problems with that.

The subs you have picked out are dual 4 ohm voice coils. That means, you can either wire them up 4 ohms, or 1 ohm. So you want to find an amp that puts out like 600-1,000 watts rms at 4 ohms or 1 ohm. The point is that when it's all said and done, everything is within it's own operating limits.

[Bwcad1]

its good to hear of someone like you that will wait and do it right. as for powering down the amp just turn the fader down. also im with rob scrap the rear speakers and get better front stage. i wouldnt seal type r's though rob thats just my preferance.

[RaveN1814]

its good to hear of someone like you that will wait and do it right. as for powering down the amp just turn the fader down. also im with rob scrap the rear speakers and get better front stage. i wouldnt seal type r's though rob thats just my preferance.

Turn the fader down???

[RaveN1814]

The best way to wire the subs is within the operating limits of the amp. If your amp is only stable at 4 ohms, you don't want to give it a 2 ohm load. That will hurt it.
I'd go with a sealed box and ample power. Two tens is good. All the equipment you have picked out looks good. You shouldn't have any problems with that.
The subs you have picked out are dual 4 ohm voice coils. That means, you can either wire them up 4 ohms, or 1 ohm. So you want to find an amp that puts out like 600-1,000 watts rms at 4 ohms or 1 ohm. The point is that when it's all said and done, everything is within it's own operating limits.

So to present a 4 ohm load to the amp in this setup I would have to wire the coils in each of the subs in series that would make an 8 ohm load per sub, then I would wire the subs in parallel and that would finally bring it back down to a 4 ohm load total for the amp? I'm trying to make the whole thing 4 ohm as opposed to 1 ohm, because I know its harder for an amp to power lower ohms.

[Bwcad1]

its actually not harder for an amp to work at lower ohms its easier thats the problem thought there not stable that low. as for a 4 or a 1 ohm load it doesnt matter either way a 1 ohm amp that pushes 1000 watts is gonna be many times cheaper than an amp that does it at 4. my amp will pust 1000 watts at 4 ohm X 2 but its retail is 2500 bucks. go with a 1 ohm mono amp at 1000 watts like an autotek mm1000.1 a hifonics bx1605d or even 2505d also look at jbl1200.1 and so on.

[Robert Wollenberg]

yes, you are right. I can't say anything bad about ported boxes. I'm running ported right now as a matter of fact. If designed right they get a lot louder and can maintain a nice sound, but they also tend not to handle as much power ported either. I built my box for boom. And it's served its purpose, but as much as Bill wants to keep me booming, I'm going sealed in my next setup. lol. He's still got plenty of time to change my mind, but I think I'm pretty sure what way I'm going.

I'll support ported enclosures too. The key is that it's built right. Built well and to the correct parameters for the drivers. That's what's really important.

If I get the chance, I'm still going to get by Bills place on one of my trips to Michigan. I might have to make a special trip just to visit, I don't know.

[Robert Wollenberg]

Bill knows what he's talking about and he's way more in touch with current equipment than I am. I'm still working my way back into things. I've been out of the game for about the past six years or so.