speaker imaging question.

MobileAudio219 · Post by **MobileAudio219** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:29 pm

After driving around with only a pioneer deck running the stock speakers I decided its time to install some of my gear.

Front stage will be a set of kicker k65.2 components off a kicker 250.2... I'm thinking about fiberglassing the mids in the door facing slighty back and slighty up and the tweeters in the dash were the factory 4x6 were/are kind of like kiki did in his jeep....

Is the imaging going to sound like crap like this?

Should I put the tweeter with the the mid in the door? Should I just suck it up and loose all feet room and door kick panels?

Post by **GlassWolf** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:40 pm

I would put the mid and tweeter in the doors, near each other

MobileAudio219 · Post by **MobileAudio219** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:17 pm

ok, I can do that without any problems...

So if you were me would you do kick panels or door pods?
Door pods would be technically easier, but if you guys think its worth the extra time and the lost leg room I'll do kicks!

Ranger SVO · Post by **Ranger SVO** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:31 pm

I would do door pods simply because Blazers have no leg room to begin with. Any pods down there would just be problematic. Remember, you still have to drive this thing and being comfortable while driving should of concern to you.

Just my 10 cents worth

MobileAudio219 · Post by **MobileAudio219** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:30 pm

Ranger SVO wrote:I would do door pods simply because Blazers have no leg room to begin with. Any pods down there would just be problematic. Remember, you still have to drive this thing and being comfortable while driving should of concern to you.
Just my 10 cents worth

thats why I really didnt want to run kicks... But if I did decide to, it would be 8" midbass in the doors, 4" midranges and tweeters in the kicks... That would work wouldnt it?

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:38 pm

A 4" midrange wouldn't be that bad in kicks, especially if it isn't too deep. A dome midrange wouldn't likely hurt your legroom at all.

Kick panels definately have benefits in the imaging department, but whether that's worth losing legroom is dependant upon you.

MrSo0h0o · Post by **MrSo0h0o** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:00 pm

honestly i think the best way to see what you like is to try different positioning.. when i installed my component set, i didnt try things out fully and now after a year im thinkin about changing it around..

geolemon · Post by **geolemon** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:52 pm

"try it before you buy it"

Any time I set up a car - before arbitrarily "just angling it" some imaginary angle - make a baffle out of wood, screw the speaker to it.
Mount a wood panel to the door.
Take small pieces of wood, or even very long screws, and temporarily suspend that speaker at different angles - with no tweeters connected - just listen to the mid (on the crossover, just like it's supposed to be

).
Close your eyes. Where is the sound coming from?
Tweak your angles until your imaging is right.

Before arbitrarily picking any tweeter location or angle - same thing. Tweeters are usually easier - 3M makes a nice foam tape you can use to stick the tweeter all over your interior... doors, kicks, A-pillars.
Speakers all have different acoustical and directional properties - it's difficult to generalize about where any speaker should go.
The angle of the speaker - it's all about speaker directionality... on-axis vs. off-axis responses.
Location - it's all about interior acoustics.

And it's not so much important to keep the "mid and the tweeter near each other", because that's not what matters - what matters really is keeping the pathlength distance (the distance from each speaker to your ear) equal, with regard to the tweeter and the mid - and one way that risk is often minimized is to locate the tweeter near the mid.
But ultimately, it's phasing anomolies you are looking to eliminate, that are possible if there is a difference in pathlength distances comparing the tweeter to the mid.

MobileAudio219 · Post by **MobileAudio219** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:15 pm

I'll mess with it and get it the best I can. This summer I'm going to start fresh and redo the entire system, might go all Elevation Audio.?.?

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:06 pm

"Any time I set up a car - before arbitrarily "just angling it" some imaginary angle - make a baffle out of wood, screw the speaker to it.
Mount a wood panel to the door.
Take small pieces of wood, or even very long screws, and temporarily suspend that speaker at different angles - with no tweeters connected - just listen to the mid (on the crossover, just like it's supposed to be )."

Fully agree with Geo on this one. I never saw the point in people bragging about speakers being laser aligned with the dome light, it won't guarantee anything with the odd shapes you encounter in a car. In addition to his advice, one thing I do is use Plumber's strap, it's stiff enough to hold a speaker in place and flexible enough to allow you to tweak angling in the process. Once I get the angling right, I make bracing to hold the MDF ring in place while stretching fleece over it.

"And it's not so much important to keep the "mid and the tweeter near each other", because that's not what matters - what matters really is keeping the pathlength distance (the distance from each speaker to your ear) equal, with regard to the tweeter and the mid - and one way that risk is often minimized is to locate the tweeter near the mid.
But ultimately, it's phasing anomolies you are looking to eliminate, that are possible if there is a difference in pathlength distances comparing the tweeter to the mid."

Amen. This concept seems to baffle even experienced competitors, and past that you also get into Head Related Transfer Function, in which imaging won't even depend upon pathlength, it's all about volume past that point (within reason, of course). So many concepts that people seem to miss, primarily how to cater to the characteristics of the human auditory system.