Detroit Bailout

MobileAudio219 · Post by **MobileAudio219** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:45 pm

cargodz wrote:My Civic actually had power windows and doors, power steering and A/C and that's exactly what I'm saying as the technology in making equipment lighter has advanced in the last 20 years so it should be able to be built easily with all of the newer safety equipment and still do 40mpg.

They were witty bitty cars, lol...

I'm not sure theres a strong market for little bitty cars like that anymore...

A few weeks ago I went to stl with my cousin in his little lancer, after the hour or so drive up, I started dreading the drive home..

Now taking the same trip with my buddy in his buick, sooo much better...

They just need to figure out how to make it lighter, and more fuel effiecent...

On a side note, when GM released their new full size trucks I new they were going to go bankrupt.

CaptainPioneer · Post by **CaptainPioneer** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:33 am

The Tango has freakishly good safety for its small size... it is completely constructed with a roll cage... that sucker does 0-60 in 4 seconds... They have all their info on their site http://www.commutercars.com/

I had the same conscerns but think about it bill... What is the closest option to that car????
The smart car? Which by the way is a pos and doesnt get anywhere near the kind of gas milage that they were getting in europe with them... Everything that comes over to the U.S has some sort of change to it to make it LESS fuel efficient...

CaptainPioneer · Post by **CaptainPioneer** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:37 am

MobileAudio219 wrote:They were witty bitty cars, lol...

I'm not sure theres a strong market for little bitty cars like that anymore...

A few weeks ago I went to stl with my cousin in his little lancer, after the hour or so drive up, I started dreading the drive home..

Now taking the same trip with my buddy in his buick, sooo much better...

They just need to figure out how to make it lighter, and more fuel effiecent...

On a side note, when GM released their new full size trucks I new they were going to go bankrupt.

Im not saying everyone needs to buy a tiny little fuel efficient car... Thats not the goal... but think of all the people who only drive max 20-60 miles a day and are all by themselves in a car???? Why drive a car that gets 18mpg and only 1 person in it when you could be driving a small car that sips on gas for that...

If you have a big family then yea you probably should get a bigger car... thats the sacrifice that you have to make if you have a large family. But if the only time you need a car that is big like that is when you take trips then go ahead and rent a car for that weekend or week... I would bet you the savings in gas would easily justify for spending it on a large vehicle for recreation perposes...

Oh and Bill... The tesla is amazing.... I know its completely outside the realm of possibilty for normal americans to buy, but if it had enough funding the price tag would go down to under $50k and that would draw a lot of Corvette and Viper guys away from their respective choice autos.

cargodz · Post by **cargodz** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:02 am

MobileAudio219 wrote:They were witty bitty cars, lol...
I'm not sure theres a strong market for little bitty cars like that anymore...
A few weeks ago I went to stl with my cousin in his little lancer, after the hour or so drive up, I started dreading the drive home.
Now taking the same trip with my buddy in his buick, sooo much better.

True they were itty bitty, but it fit the family well enough with plenty of extra space in the back for groceries... And if there weren't a market for them now... Why is there a waiting list for the smart car? And you're not gonna get 4 people and a trip to the store in a Smart.
If people want luxury then they should expect to pay for it... Same goes for real world performance.
I mean when you take into account that most families own at least 2 vehicles, why shouldn't the auto industry market both ways and market these lil cars as commuters and daily drivers, then market the luxuries of the larger vehicles as a second vehicle (although they do need to improve on the gas mileage of these as well).

CaptainPioneer · Post by **CaptainPioneer** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:38 am

There are some steps being taken by companies to make better cars... but when you look at the vehicle lineups of GM vs Toyota... there is a no-brainer who has the most vehicles that get terrible mpg... Although I still havnt really forgiven Toyota for killing the FJ Cruiser with the powerplant they put in it... and the huge pricetag that american execs demanded after they PROMISED it was going to be an affordable truck for College kids!

MobileAudio219 · Post by **MobileAudio219** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:32 pm

CaptainPioneer wrote:but think of all the people who only drive max 20-60 miles a day and are all by themselves in a car???? Why drive a car that gets 18mpg and only 1 person in it when you could be driving a small car that sips on gas for that...

Because to maintain a vehicle like that would probably be very expensive!

I'm not sure that in the long run you wouldnt be better off buying a cobalt or neon...

CaptainPioneer · Post by **CaptainPioneer** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:24 pm

^^^ Perhaps, but more people i see driving SUV's and Trucks by themselves to work instead of a small dinky car like a cobalt or a PEE-on... sorry... I hate those things lol...

I still like the idea of a 1 person or 2 person travel vehicle instead of a traditional 4 or 5 person car... Thats a large part of why i bought a Motorcycle

scotts1000rr · Post by **scotts1000rr** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:05 pm

CaptainPioneer wrote: I still like the idea of a 1 person or 2 person travel vehicle instead of a traditional 4 or 5 person car... Thats a large part of why i bought a Motorcycle

No its not!!!!! You did it for the chicks.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:49 am

Bwcad1 wrote:You know batterys so explain the memory Effect on NIMH battery's. While solar works for a small percentage of vehicles provide me with facts about how we could produce enough solar energy to power the 62 million registered vehicles in the united states. (approximate) Electric car's are not the answer either. We would be going from one non renewable resource to another. Do some research on Brazil and its current state of energy independence. We need to find an alternative that will work with the existing infrastructure. Now this is about the big 3 not energy back on topic lol.

Bill I think you are referring to NiCd batteries when you are talking about the memory effect. NiMH does not have that issue. Also NiMH does not have the toxicity of NiCd either. Li-ion cells have the best energy density and would be best suited if it were not for the cost factor alone. So NiMH is the best we have today.

It has been said man times that between solar and wind, we could generate enough electricity to power the whole US today. If you subsidize that renewable with the existing nuclear power we already have, it would easily power everything. If they can continue to make progress in clean coal, which I thin they will, then you add that in with the nuclear and we are all set IMHO.

Now all of that is energy production. The real mess today is distribution. That is what causes the rolling blackouts. The real issue with power in this country is our antiquated power grid. We must upgrade it before any of the renewable power sources will have any chance of helping.

One of the guys who works here with me, his dad has worked in the power industry for 30+ years. He is one of a small hand full in the world that is allowed to work on the really big high voltage stuff. Anytime there is a storm in the US, he is called away to supervise the repairs. He knows a thing or two about our grid. He said that if they try to install solar and/or wind stations on today's grid, he is going to retire along with a bunch of the other highly skilled guys. They say it would be a worst case scenario.

As for ethanol, that is not the way. We tried that and all it did was drive up our food costs. Farmers could sell ethanol corn for more than food level corn or soy. They only have so much farmland and they will grow what pays. If ethanol is the highest bidder, then everything else made from corn suffers. And I believe that Brazil makes their ethanol from sugar, which we have very little land that can sustain that crop here in the US.

So, basically, there is no one thing that will fix the issue for us all. But, if GM had a viable vehicle with a waiting list of customers willing to pay the price, why end it? Sure it cost $100k, but they had thousands of people who were willing to pay that. Why would BMW/Mini be running a similar test today? Because it is viable if the market is free of interference. The truth is that the oil companies will do whatever they can to stay in the game. They will not fade away quietly. Their shareholders demand that they do what ever is necessary to return a profit.

That is capitalism for you. Only the rich have a say. Even if a poor dude wanted to make a difference, he would not have the choice. That decision is made in the boardroom for him.

Bwcad1 · Post by **Bwcad1** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:57 am

That is capitalism for you. Only the rich have a say. Even if a poor dude wanted to make a difference, he would not have the choice. That decision is made in the boardroom for him.

Please explain what you mean by this? What decisions are made for you and by whom?