KikiTheCat wrote:well let's see.. a preamp can cost between $100-$400 on average depending on brand and style.
less if you go used. I see the Orion 300PRQ and 300PSW on eBay fairly often, and they go pretty cheaply.
as for the recording levels of the CDs, you use a reference CD. dynamic range is limited on a CD. You can only get so loud, thus you use a test tone CD with high but pre-distortion volume tones to set the preamp. you should know this. If you're playing a CD that was mastered at a lower mean level, you turn the volume up on the preamp a bit.. I've never had to use full volume on my systems. I've always made sure to have ample power so I don't have a problem with my system being too weak to handle any volume I want to listen to.
as for digital signal path, it's good as long as you can keep the entire path digital. The instant you go to analog though, you may as well stay analog because when you go back and forth from DA to AD to DA you're just re-sampling the data over and over and losing quality from the initial source. Very few product lines offer pure digital signal path from head unit to amplifiers. Alpine's F#1status is one of the few, and you pay dearly for it.
Another reason I prefer a preamp is the analog volume knob. I despise digital volume +/- buttons, and digital rotary knobs are just below that in my dislike list.
If you don't want to use a preamp, then don't. I didn't write this to convince you of anything. I wrote this as the title says, because someone asked me to.
Yes, but I only asked what justifies the cost
If it comes down to gaining a rotary volume knob... hrmm
ALthough I honestly prefer true rotary volume knobs myself, I can settle for the fairly responsive digital knob on my kenwood deck. +/- buttons are the absolute worst.
always hated the +/- thing.. had a pioneer with that.
I admit a preamp isn't as useful these days with head units that have EQing, DSP, etc and 3 sets of preouts with crossover all built in, but when ya have a head unit without everything internally, you tend to develop a preference for preamps.. I'm used to using them in home audio too, with an amplifier, but that's a bit different.
In my case as well, I can hide the entire head unit and still have use of the system via the preamp for volume etc.. so its great for a stealthy setup in an older car.
as for digital signal path, it's good as long as you can keep the entire path digital. The instant you go to analog though, you may as well stay analog because when you go back and forth from DA to AD to DA you're just re-sampling the data over and over and losing quality from the initial source. Very few product lines offer pure digital signal path from head unit to amplifiers. Alpine's F#1status is one of the few, and you pay dearly for it.
The way I look at it if I don't have any "stuff" after my h/u and do all signal processing digitally before analog conversion, the primary difference between what I've got and an F#1 is the RCA's. So as long as I'm not picking up any substantial noise and voltage drop is acceptable then I should be fine, right? I know there's a capacitive component in all RCA's but aren't its effects negligible in the audio spectrum?
I'm also curious how the digital thing works on the F#1. If your running an optical or spdif cable all the way to the amp I would assume the amp would have a DAC as well. If this is the case what are the benefits of having expensive Burr Brown DAC's in the F#1 h/u if its merely being used as a transport? If the DAC's are needed because some h/u signal procesing is done in the analog realm then converted back to digital that kind of defeats the whole purpose.
I guess you need the F#1 h/u in order to "talk" to the other Alpine stuff, but it seems you could use any DVD player, or other source that has digital outs, as a transport just as effectively otherwise.
I hate to pick your brain like this Kiki, but I'm really curious what makes the F#1 stuff so much better. Who knows I may win the lottery some day.
Fishy wrote:If this is the case what are the benefits of having expensive Burr Brown DAC's in the F#1 h/u if its merely being used as a transport? If the DAC's are needed because some h/u signal procesing is done in the analog realm then converted back to digital that kind of defeats the whole purpose.
in my case I'm using analog outs from the 7990. if you use the alpine F#1status signal processor and amplifiers, you keep a purely digital 6 channel data path for doing 5.1 AC3.. the stand alone processor takes the digital input and splits it out to a 6 channel amp or multiple amps or whatever without any phase shift or propagation issues associated with analog signal processing. personally I don't want video in a car so 2 channel is fine for me. I'm also not using Alpine's signal processing so I don't worry about the signal path staying digital.
On the other hand, some units like the Orion Concept 97.2 EQ do offer TOSlink input for optical data path.. but it's not a common feature at this point.
when it does become more common, staying digital will reduce heat and signal loss, it'll eliminate noise and lower noise floor as a result, and reduce cable runs etc.. basically you could run power, remote, and a single thin optical cable and have everything done till you wire the speakers. It's just a simpler, cleaner approach, but to be ideal, you need to keep everything digital from the CD pickup to the amplifiers..
Its a dead-head with DSP functions that consist only of a 5 band PEQ, 4 way Xover, and 8 channel time alignment. It doesn't even have a removable faceplate.
when it does become more common, staying digital will reduce heat and signal loss, it'll eliminate noise and lower noise floor as a result, and reduce cable runs etc..
Yeah, but to totally elimnate RCA's you'd need to have amps with DAC's. I don't know how practical that would be. Someone needs to design a really small external DAC that is easily mounted next to amps or maybe even plugs in "inline" with an analog amp's inputs. Something that plugged into a phantom power din(PPI/Orion) would be ideal.
H/u prices would drop dramatically and how "good" one was would simply depend on the quality/quantity of onboard DSP functions, but any old CD/DVD player with optical outs would sound great. Imagine the possibilties of going with a h/u that had zero analog circuitry; no preamp, let alone any Mosfet stuff. Talk about a dead head. And what if all factory decks came with a set of digital outs? How easy it would be to add aftermarket amps to a factory system then.
Somebody needs to be daring and get the ball rolling.
Can you believe that thing has been sitting on my bedroom floor for over 2 weeks now?
My Explorer is sitting in the driveway completely gutted and sound deadened, no seats , no carpet, no nothin, hehe. I finally got the last piece of hardware from Knukonceptz and as soon as I can get hold of a 1" step bit I'll drill a new hole in the firewall for some 1/0 power wire and then be ready to rock and roll on the rest of the install.
This crap is taking me forever, lol. I tell you what. My appreciation of what the "professionals" do with installs has grown tremendously.
