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pretty much everything about xbl^2 is in the publically available PDF files anyway

[quote="KikiTheCat"]...and since XBL^2 caters more to SQ than to SPL, none of that really matters.
Price.. wel, $145 for a good 12" sub isn't expensive, looking at the Atlas gen 1. $369 for a 12" XXX isn't cheap, but for a 60lbs speaker with the performance of the XXX, it's reasonable. Efficiency isn't an issue if you supply adequate power, and most SQ people give plenty of power as reserve to handle transient demands anyway and SQ people don't abuse equipment the way SPL people do. In addition to that, if you mean clipping by abuse, there's no reason an amplifier should ever enter clipping in a well designed system anwyay. Clipping supplies no more power than you'd get with the amplifier properly driven, so it really gains you nothing but premature driver death.

All in all, for what XBL^2 is used for, it fits the bill well.[/quote]

I wasn't talking about XBL^2, as its neither underhung, nor overhung in topology..

I am refering to drivers such as the Mass 2012, CMP, and so on...

true underhung units... with a gap generally twice the length of the coil's winding..

its becoming a fastly dying topology, due to the reasons I described in the previous post..

if you'd like for me to delve into the world of XBL^2, I'll go as far as the NDA I signed lets me :)

Loyd L.

[quote="bigbassman"]you'd see more underhung designs today if it weren't for their excessive cost, wasted flux (i.e low efficiency), and intolerance of abuse..[/quote]

...and since XBL^2 caters more to SQ than to SPL, none of that really matters.
Price.. wel, $145 for a good 12" sub isn't expensive, looking at the Atlas gen 1. $369 for a 12" XXX isn't cheap, but for a 60lbs speaker with the performance of the XXX, it's reasonable. Efficiency isn't an issue if you supply adequate power, and most SQ people give plenty of power as reserve to handle transient demands anyway and SQ people don't abuse equipment the way SPL people do. In addition to that, if you mean clipping by abuse, there's no reason an amplifier should ever enter clipping in a well designed system anwyay. Clipping supplies no more power than you'd get with the amplifier properly driven, so it really gains you nothing but premature driver death.

All in all, for what XBL^2 is used for, it fits the bill well.

Yeah underhungs are rare. The top plate is usually what costs so much.

you'd see more underhung designs today if it weren't for their excessive cost, wasted flux (i.e low efficiency), and intolerance of abuse..

and I wouldn't expect XBL^2 to be going anywhere soon.... there's lots of companies using / will be using it in the very near future...

Dan summed it up pretty well on SI.net

you don't suddenly drop a company, and have new designs and motors lined up that quick... sounds to me like Chad just needed a reason to go ahead..

Loyd L.

[url]http://forum.soundillusions.net/showthread.php?t=50350[/url]

[quote=" Dan Wiggins"] To all,

As many of you know, Ascendant Audio, which uses our XBL² technology, took a post I made as an offense and are now claiming to stop using our technology. The offensive statement was:

"You even presume that other XBL² drivers are equivalent to ours... Ever done some objective measurements to back that up? I have, and many OEMs have, and I can tell you that just because it says XBL² does not mean it's equal to all other XBL² drivers..."

However, the quote was taken out of context. This part of a post (less than 10% of the entire post) was in relation to questions about our upcoming product line, and many "enthusiasts" claiming that our soon-to-be-released new product was a step backwards and not as good as other offerings on the market. Note that claims were made about our product which has not even been released!

Perhaps some background is in order...

Along with this flare-up many have inferred that somehow Ascendant Audio and Adire Audio were partners. There is nothing to that. In fact, the sum total of all the interaction of the two companies has been 3 e-mails outlining the legalities related to using trademarked terms. There was no agreement, license, NDA, paperwork, letter of intent, phone calls, or any other comments, information exchange, or relationship between the two companies. Just clarification about use of trademarked terms.

The sole "connection" between the two companies was that Ascendant Audio used a build house that is a licensed builder of XBL². That is the total technological/business relationship between Adire and Ascendant. The build house has a fixed royalty rate they must pay us for all licensed product]

I like a good underhung design better than nearly anything for sealed boxes and a relatively long linear throw, the XBL^2 design has a slight dip in the BL curve between about 2 and 6mm of excursion (which ironically is the excursion range that you'd be using most), nothing drastic or really worth mentioning, though. Underhung tends to be flatter in BL until it falls off and uses a shorter voice coil. But an underhung falls off more quickly than XBL^2 after a given excursion level. With a ported box you can get away with motors that have a more parabolic curve to them such as long gap/long coil and short gap/long coil designs like those from Eclipse, JL, Image Dynamics, etc.

I don't have any news to back that up or anything, it's just a personal opinion.

"Honestly, don't be surprised if you see a lot of companies using the XBL^2 motor back out soon. I think some more testing has been done on this motor and the results haven't been very good.... the XBL^2 motor may be gone soon."

What kind of testing, a dumax report or something along those lines? Just curious, I'd like to see that if you where I could find it. The main complaints I've heard from Adire's products have been the number of recones needed, or anything that was glued for that matter. Not a lot, just every now and then.

damn 105 bucks. Is it worth hurrying out and buying 2 15s?