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i was on pioneers website for no real reason, and i came across at link talking about how this sub set a record at a national competition. it was to guys who set like 4 world records using these subs and the spl5000 amps that go along with them. they hit a 179 which they said was the highest score ever recorded in idbl. i went to this little hole in the wall shop are my house, and they has these subs for only 450 brand new. thats not too expensive for world record subs huh . . . except for needing 2000kw rms . . they also have a new sub that they said exceeded the 180db mark!

here is the link to the world record page ----> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/a ... 58,00.html

i ran these subs and they have great potential im warning you now these are spl subs not sq subs they dont sound good playing music and there not designed 2. Team Edge Audio out of tempe uses pioneer stuff and there using the new 6000w special editions those did a 180.3. they need and want power and when you first play them hard they will burn in so dont be scared! I wish i would have kept this sub it was a tank...

when you say spl subs and not sq, you mean they are meant for strictly bass songs?

That seems to be old? Anyways...

SPL is a twisted concept... because it has nothing to do, whatsoever, with music. Its all a matter of a motor, electricity, and an optimal tuning frequency, combined with cabin gain, to maximize the motor's efficiency (output) at a precise point.

I suppose I think of it like drag racing...
You can take a stock car to the track... ho-hum, it's a grocery getter.

You can upgrade your stock car, still get groceries and drive it daily, but turn it out for some impressive numbers on the track.

Or you can build a funny car that runs on jet fuel and has absolutely no practical use, anywhere other than the track. Here's your extreme SPL.

Now I don't feel it's wrong or anything, to chase records. Actually I think it's rather interesting, because people are very creative in the sport... and you have to admire the diehards, because their hearts are truly into it.

But the fact that they broke SPL records with "Type X" subwoofer is far from an actual reason for me to purchase one for my audio system... since that fact says absolutely nothing about how that sub would sound/perform in a real world application, with sensible power. I'd almost expect it to sound like ass, just by design.

I think $450 is a respectable price point... compared to others (new XXX). I mean, it's still pretty damn pricey, it's probably worth more like $250-$300 but the corporate giant needs it's mega-profit.

Can you compare this subwoofer, in reality, to the likes of the Eclipse Titanium pro, or Rockford's Power Stage 2, or Alpine's Type X, or even the new RE XXX?

I don't honestly believe you can. Pioneer was one of the best companies, but I would'nt look to them for coaxials these days, much less subwoofers.

NO THESE SUBS ARE MADE STRICTLY FOR SPL i ran one daily and it sounded ok at best. the one i sold to a buddy of mine he is selling to much sub for him. they dont like small boxes and dont like small ports. they want lots of power and they are loud. the sub is massive it has a 81lb shipping weight. If you get one of these its about competion if you dont plan to compete then its not worth it. Gonz u worry me. pioneer makes great middle of the road stuff and there premier line headunits are very very nice. i dont see how you can talk about how sony is a good company and all these others are great but bash pioneer? i used this sub and it would put anyone of the ones you listed to shame. i used to run pioneer coaxials and infact i still do 4 years now pioneer coaxials on an amp for 4 years and they do the job they sound good dont distort and i havent had one failure... im sorry but i think that your opinion is highly skewed about this brand. on top of that you listed subs that are more sql oriented than spl? name hardcore spl subs Like the MT or RFL or VFL. pioneers product is great middle of the road stuff.

Bwcad1 wrote:i ran these subs and they have great potential im warning you now these are spl subs not sq subs they dont sound good playing music and there not designed 2.

LOL!! Thanks for backing me up Bill
So thats my point exactly. If I was designing something to get loud at a specific frequency, I would look to narrow it's function to that frequency, and forget the rest.

ummm. wow

Bwcad1 wrote: Gonz u worry me. pioneer makes great middle of the road stuff and there premier line headunits are very very nice. i dont see how you can talk about how sony is a good company and all these others are great but bash pioneer? i used this sub and it would put anyone of the ones you listed to shame.

Hang on, hang on...
First, we agreed the other day, that there are good products to be found from most every brand, and a good price is just a bonus.

Sony is definitely not the best brand out there LOL

My only problem with Pioneer headunits is they seem to have a pretty limited lifespan, compared to other brands. However, Pioneer is the largest selling brand of headunits, as far as I know, so it may be a skewed ratio based on the number of pioneers in use, versus any other brand.

I'll agree, the Premier line is pretty nice stuff. It does'nt offer me alot of features I look for though. DACs are generally average, nothing special. Never seen a Pioneer using Burr Brown op-amps, no time alignment, usually just average crossovers, barebone EQs, and they don't offer much in terms of processors, period.

Thats why Alpine, Eclipse, Clarion, and yes even Sony, still sell.
And mark my words, you're going to see JVC and Kenwood eat up Pioneers market share, slowly but surely.

i used to run pioneer coaxials and infact i still do 4 years now pioneer coaxials on an amp for 4 years and they do the job they sound good dont distort and i havent had one failure... im sorry but i think that your opinion is highly skewed about this brand.

Well, thats fine, but you know for the same money... Boston Acoustics, CDT, Infinity, Alpine, Diamond, Cadence, Kicker, JL Audio, and many many others make competing coaxial speakers. Yep, I'm skewed there. Think about it.

on top of that you listed subs that are more sql oriented than spl? name hardcore spl subs Like the MT or RFL or VFL. pioneers product is great middle of the road stuff.

Duh? I said "In Reality"... to me, reality = SQL. I thought we previously came to that understanding. You have to look at my contexts a little bit closer...

The reason I named Rockford, Eclipse, and Alpine... to begin with...
Is because those are also Corporate Giant brands that you find in the mainstream, where Pioneer products are usually sold. Crutchfield, BestBuy, etc...

We have to compare apples with apples, and while I'm setting aside SQ - SQL - SPL differences... I'm talking Flagship to Flagship comparison, and your average everyday buyer's purposes.

As for "middle of the road"... I don't see any real benefit, or reason to brag, about being middle of the road. If thats what Pioneer strives for these days... Then I'm not surprised their glory days died in the 80s.

DEX-P9
DEH-P980BT
DEH-P880PRS
DEH-P780MP

all have 24bit burr brown
all except the 780 i think have time alignment and nice eq's? im kind of lost as to where you got your facts about them.

reality to you and to others is diffrent so y does it only matter how you view this hobby? dont get me wrong im not trying to sound like an ass but there is other than sql out there.

as for there life span i have used 2 pioneer headunits in the last 5 years niether have had any large issues other than the face sticking on my latest. however i have heard of the lifespan issues. team livewire/team maxxsonics tested a bunch of head units for our application and found that the best for spl was the cheapest kenwood you could buy. mainly because all that was in there was a cd player nothing else there was room for anti skip devices and all that good stuff. but i get your point i just didnt think you gave pioneer enough credit.

Bwcad1 wrote:DEX-P9
DEH-P980BT
DEH-P880PRS
DEH-P780MP

all have 24bit burr brown
all except the 780 i think have time alignment and nice eq's? im kind of lost as to where you got your facts about them.

Yeah, actually nice stuff... I notice this is the current Premier lineup. I did'nt see anything like this two to three years ago. Could be now that the other brands are closing in, perhaps they're getting more serious? I hate to see what these "Audiophile" decks sell for... and again, compared to others.

I'm still concerned about lifespan.

reality to you and to others is diffrent so y does it only matter how you view this hobby? dont get me wrong im not trying to sound like an ass but there is other than sql out there.

Well, the reality of the SPL scene instead? Nobody runs Pioneer subs. SPL competition is NOT the place to be "middle of the road".

Back to the point of my post, again, the context of it...
I was simply saying a sub that sets SPL records ain't likely going to be too great for music. You even agreed!

as for there life span i have used 2 pioneer headunits in the last 5 years niether have had any large issues other than the face sticking on my latest. however i have heard of the lifespan issues.

I would'nt buy that DEX-P9 if I thought I'd have any issues, or be limited to a 2yr lifespan. I'm not going to buy 2 HUs every 5yrs.

By the way, I would'nt buy any headunits from Blaupunkt. I had one ignite, as in, start on fire inside my dash. It worked for a year just fine, then one day... its suddenly on fire. May have been a total fluke, but I'll never buy another one. Thats the only brand of HU I really have an issue with, its like they say, burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.

team livewire/team maxxsonics tested a bunch of head units for our application and found that the best for spl was the cheapest kenwood you could buy. mainly because all that was in there was a cd player nothing else there was room for anti skip devices and all that good stuff. but i get your point i just didnt think you gave pioneer enough credit.

Nah, I give em credit just as much as any other. There isn't really a single brand I want to bag on... but some are a little better in certain areas than others. Tell you one thing, my Scion came with a "Premium 500 watt Pioneer system" and it's straight up trash. And yet if I could get a great deal on a Pioneer SQ deck, equipped with every feature I desire, I'd definitely take it.

But their subs? Nah, those I'd have to pass on.