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fairly long thread, help if u can, if not...still...thank u

okay so i think/thought i knew something and the more I read the more I realize that i don't!!! Or perhaps I don't want to come to terms with what I am learning.

Story:
My old car: 90a alternator ran Hifonics 1500w@1 ohm into 2 RFosgate H2's 1000w combined with 2 1farad caps in a 95 benz (i already admitted my lack of konwledge) for 3 years with no (apparent) problems. I "drove" the crap out of that amp, especially during summers, and it ran HOT as h*ll and the subs POUNDED! and it never failed me. System ran at 13.6v and would drop to 12.x with bass notes. System died in a car accident with the car but I'm okay :) thank God!!!

I have another car: 93 BMW 140a alternator all 4ga wiring (I understand that in turn the car requires more of the electrical system than my old car). No system, currently I am shopping one. I want to keep purchasing it simple for me (read eBay).

Budget: around $500 for an amp. I am still stuck on 2 subs in a sealed enclosure, surely will be prefab, budget: $300-$400. Not sure if I want 10"s versus 12"s. (eBay prices)

I know better than to ask for u to pick me a system, I've been asking a lot of questions regarding Kicker CVx's and amps. I do go all over the web but this is the first forum I joined (the old one) and my favorite

teach me:
I've been reading a heck of a lot. I have my experience (that's why I posted my old setup), but I don't want to argue numbers/facts. I really don't want to have to upgrade my alt (especially for my BMW, I can't just switch them out like a bike tire like when I had my Ford Taurus). That's $$$, plus the fact that it might only last me 1.5 to 2 years. Too much money and I keep thinking about my old systems alt not burning out. I guess, pretty much, I know I am not going to upgrade it. I understand that may prevent you from being able to advise me. I'd rather kill the alt in a few years (even though that might not even happen based on my past experience), by then I'll be making big $$$ anyway. But at this time, I want the best SQL system I can get on ebay with a prefab sealed enclosure.

If this thread is unworthy of a response I understand since I feel like I am rambling, i just want to know (I guess), what's the largest amount of watts (amp) I should or can get away with running. I mean my old car had only a 90a alt with a 1500w amp to power not to mention 2 1F caps and it didn't burn out with 3 years of "pushing" my amp. I figure with my 140a alternator I can get away with at least that (1500w).

I am shopping for a (up to) 1500w system I can get on eBay. I do want SPL but I definitely appreciate some SQ also...I think (not sure) round Kicker speakers can do that for me. I want to run the system at 2 ohms :) http://www.caraudiocentral.net/forums/s ... php?t=4168

I have one straightforward question. Will 2 10"s (Kicker CVX's, 1200w combined) still be able to pound when I want them to. I didn't mention that I need some trunk space which is part of the reason I limit my options. Also, the height of my trunk is less than 16", but it is long.

Super general/vague thread...I know. As always, I'm just seeking any and all feedback.

FYI, I ran Eclipse (can't remember model off-hand) and JL w6's with the same setup and it sounded wonderful, just that at the time the RFs were good enough and a hell of a lot cheaper so I sold the Eclipses and JLs and stuck with the RFs. So even with a bogus amperage (alt) 1500w amp system I know I can still get a great sounding system. . . . .......

sonso_chi wrote:fairly long thread, help if u can, if not...still...thank u
okay so i think/thought i knew something and the more I read the more I realize that i don't!!! Or perhaps I don't want to come to terms with what I am learning.
Story:
My old car: 90a alternator ran Hifonics 1500w@1 ohm into 2 RFosgate H2's 1000w combined with 2 1farad caps in a 95 benz (i already admitted my lack of konwledge) for 3 years with no (apparent) problems. I "drove" the crap out of that amp, especially during summers, and it ran HOT as h*ll and the subs POUNDED! and it never failed me. System ran at 13.6v and would drop to 12.x with bass notes. System died in a car accident with the car but I'm okay :) thank God!!!
I have another car: 93 BMW 140a alternator (I understand that in turn the car requires more of the electrical system than my old car). No system, currently I am shopping one. I want to keep purchasing it simple for me (read eBay).
Budget: around $500 for an amp. I am still stuck on 2 subs in a sealed enclosure, surely will be prefab, budget: $300-$400. Not sure if I want 10"s versus 12"s. (eBay prices)
I know better than to ask for u to pick me a system, I've been asking a lot of questions regarding Kicker CVx's and amps. I do go all over the web but this is the first forum I joined (the old one) and my favorite
teach me:
I've been reading a heck of a lot. I have my experience (that's why I posted my old setup), but I don't want to argue numbers/facts. I really don't want to have to upgrade my alt (especially for my BMW, I can't just switch them out like a bike tire like when I had my Ford Taurus). That's $$$, plus the fact that it might only last me 1.5 to 2 years. Too much money and I keep thinking about my old systems alt not burning out. I guess, pretty much, I know I am not going to upgrade it. I understand that may prevent you from being able to advise me. I'd rather kill the alt in a few years (even though that might not even happen based on my past experience), by then I'll be making big $$$ anyway. But at this time, I want the best SQL system I can get on ebay with a prefab sealed enclosure.
If this thread is unworthy of a response I understand since I feel like I am rambling, i just want to know (I guess), what's the largest amount of watts (amp) I should or can get away with running. I mean my old car had only a 90a alt with a 1500w amp to power not to mention 2 1F caps and it didn't burn out with 3 years of "pushing" my amp. I figure with my 140a alternator I can get away with at least that if not more.
I am shopping for a (up to) 1500w system I can get on eBay. I do want SPL but I definitely appreciate some SQ also...I think (not sure) round Kicker speakers can do that for me. I want to run the system at 2 ohms :) http://www.caraudiocentral.net/forums/s ... php?t=4168
I have one straightforward question. Will 2 10"s (Kicker CVX's, 1200w combined) still be able to pound when I want them to. I didn't mention that I need some trunk space which is part of the reason I limit my options. Also, the height of my trunk is less than 16", but it is long.
Super general/vague thread...I know. As always, I'm just seeking any and all feedback.
FYI, I ran Eclipse (can't remember model off-hand) and JL w6's with the same setup and it sounded wonderful, just that at the time the RFs were good enough and a hell of a lot cheaper so I sold the Eclipses and JLs and stuck with the RFs. So even with a bogus amperage (alt) 1500w amp system I know I can still get a great sounding system. . . . .......

I'm sure those CVX's would do you fine. They are basically a round L7 with a few alterations to gear it towards SQ, and to like small, sealed enclosures.

I'm not sure about this, but you need to vent the bass into your cabin, because BMW's are notorious for have a solid metal backing behind the rear seats. Most people just take out their rear speakers. So think about that.

Also, why are you wanting to "run" your system at 2ohms?

For a 2-ohm load (CVX D2's) You might want to look at this amp.

For a 1-ohm load (CVX D4's) look at this cadence link

^Thanks Altec88

Altec88 wrote:I'm sure those CVX's would do you fine. They are basically a round L7 with a few alterations to gear it towards SQ, and to like small, sealed enclosures.

I am wondering would 2 10"s with rms rating of 1200w be able to hit anywhere as hard as, say 2 12"s with rating of 1000w. I did read how these are just thermal ratings, but I need some generic measurment to compare them in a practical sense.

Altec88 wrote:I'm not sure about this, but you need to vent the bass into your cabin, because BMW's are notorious for have a solid metal backing behind the rear seats. Most people just take out their rear speakers. So think about that.

True. So, I do have to figure that out as well. I do have a ski 'portal' so if I drop the rear seat arm rest that may 'vent' the trunk.

Altec88 wrote:Also, why are you wanting to "run" your system at 2ohms?

I started a thread regarding this topic specifically and in the end it seemed like a good idea. I am not 100% sure (not sure if one can be) but just in trying to use my limited konwledge with feedback given, I came to that conclusion. See http://www.caraudiocentral.net/forums/s ... php?t=4168
The thread is titled "Ohms in the real world".

Altec88 wrote:For a 2-ohm load (CVX D2's) You might want to look at this amp.
For a 1-ohm load (CVX D4's) look at this cadence link

Any more takers? I know my original post is looonnngggg , your feedback helps tremedously. Thanks!

sonso_chi wrote:^Thanks Altec88
I am wondering would 2 10"s with rms rating of 1200w be able to hit anywhere as hard as, say 2 12"s with rating of 1000w. I did read how these are just thermal ratings, but I need some generic measurment to compare them in a practical sense.

No...you can't look at it like that. It's not that simple. If you have individual drivers you are comparing there are ways to find out what could potentially be louder as far as displacement goes, but there is so much more to take into account that you can't just ask that question and get a flat-out response. Check the FAQ under something like Displacement, XMAX, etc for that formula. I believe you need the XMAX of each sub and the Sd.


As far as your question about subs "pounding"? Yes. They are subwoofers and they aren't Infinity(thats a joke). I installed 1 12" Kicker Comp (or whatever the cheap $80 woofer is of theirs) in one of my friends' cars getting a little under its RMS and the thing pounded, and it sounded very good. Now my 12" XXX would absolutely tear it apart... in fact my buddies thought I had 2 12" subs when they heard my XXX. That is why you can't just say "Hey are these two 12" subs 1200w rms going to hit as hard as ______?" Does it seem right that 1 12" sub could be as loud as 2 twelves? Well it can, Xmax, enclosure type, power, electrical system, those are a few very basic things to look at.


I wouldn't try to damage your alternator by running 1500w rms on your stock electrical system, although if it really is 140amps that is pretty damn large for a stock car. My Honda was something like 90amps, and that was the rating at 2krpms. Anyways, those Kicker subs sound fine, I don't know the quality of that prefab box you'll be getting, but the JBL that Altec reccomended is a solid amp.

^Thanks.
Unfortunately I didn't see the xmax numbers in the owner's manual online so I figure they don't report it or they'll make me call to get that information.

I'll probably go with the 2 10" CVx's.

I hope that my 140a alternator is a thermal rating and that it can handle it without burning out. I will not argue the numbers/facts, but my 90a alternator on my old car handled it fine, I'm sure i wasn't actually getting all the 1500w @1ohm the amp claims to be capable of (Hifonics brand, 3 years ago), but I figure at 13.6v it was putting out at least 1000w.

For what it's worth this is my thread regarding amp questions (from my research):
http://www.caraudiocentral.net/forums/s ... php?t=4180
I will take a serious look at the aforementioned amps as well.

This is a bimmer forum where a lot of people who had bimmers with smaller amps actally got a hold of the stock alt for my model car to use in theirs (I figure it fit better or was easier to make compatible:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=332966 Probably not worth reading unless you are really curious

all takers on giving me feedback...I'll probably start buying what I decide on in a week

I would go for the JBL amps. I like the look and we all know they perform well.

Definetley a class D for the sub stage. What are you doing for the cabin?

As stated the trunks are pretty tight on the BMWs. Try to keep road noise down

[quote="Ryan from Ohio"]I would go for the JBL amps. I like the look and we all know they perform well.
Definetley a class D for the sub stage. What are you doing for the cabin?
As stated the trunks are pretty tight on the BMWs. Try to keep road noise down ]

I am not sure yet but I definitely want to upgrade the front stage. I am not sure how difficult this will be for me (if at all). I do have speakers on each door and then a pair on the dashboard as well. But this will definitley come after my subs.

I already removed the ski bag portal thing (not sure what to call it) and the other part (not sure what to call it either) snaps right off so with my armrest down, there is about a 15" x 17" hole leading directly into the trunk...

with the feedback I've received I think my amp choices are going to be the JBL http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-GTO1201-1-1200- ... dZViewItem versus the Soundstream amp http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUNDSTREAM-PCA2000 ... dZViewItem

Ok yes first post....they are cheap brands
i didnt say i use these products in my oun cars....
im a JL audio,Audiobahn, i dint say holy crap best stuff ever
and im not pushing them on you
i sell mosty to a hispanic mass they dont all want jl and glassed boxes
they want BOSS LEGACY cheap so just think about this 4-years ago Audiobahn
was a pawn shop brand trash now check them out
http://www.audiobahninc.com
http://www.digitalaudioinc.com

pretty sure they are still pawn shop trash...I haven't heard anything Audiobomb that I liked. Now JL Audio, that is a different story..but to hear of both of them in the same sentence, well that is just makes my avatar seem like a reality.

It is like saying Audiobomb subs run off Audison amps...what a waste of a good amp....

sorry Geolemon, but I couldn't resist. :)

DC AUTOGROUP wrote:Ok yes first post....they are cheap brands
i didnt say i use these products in my oun cars....
im a JL audio,Audiobahn, i dint say holy crap best stuff ever
and im not pushing them on you
i sell mosty to a hispanic mass they dont all want jl and glassed boxes
they want BOSS LEGACY cheap so just think about this 4-years ago Audiobahn
was a pawn shop brand trash now check them out
http://www.audiobahninc.com
http://www.digitalaudioinc.com

still is pawn shop crap... they just got on MTV so now everyone thinks they're good. popularity doesn't make it good. I've only seen JL products in a pawnshop once, and they were snatched up quick. 2 w6v2 12"s in a vented box with a 1000/1, , full wiring, and a capacitor for $1200.tell me the shit you sell woudl even come close to what a good JL system can do. i'll have to change my pants ! :)