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smoker wrote:first of all you cant force morality on anyone. to do so makes them bitter about the whole concept. plus to make it completely illegal also takes away the opportunity to save a womans life in some cases. if she had a pregnancy go bad and the baby cant survive and she may die in the process wouldnt you want to save your wife? that is still a very hard call to make..is it right? is it wrong? only God knows sometimes and sometimes only experience teaches us but, if its wrong and you truly feel in your heart afterwards that it was wrong, then there is also forgiveness. and as far as mccain goes...you pointed out that he is my candidate of choice.....remember this? back when you questioned my sexuality and i was your customer?

Wow, be careful man, you are starting to sound a little liberal there. If you were a true conservative, no abortion would be allowed. Not even in cases of incest or rape. You should check your parties stance before taking such liberties. You might not sleep tonight knowing that you have the same stance on abortion as Barack Obama.

And I guess you never let a grudge go. That is fine. I apoplogized and edited my post. That does not make it never happen, but most people would forgive. Again, my personal beliefs are not that of the company I work for. I could not be more different from the rest of the people here. I am one of a rare few who will vote for Obama. Most everyone else here is just like you and Bill as far as political stances go.

i didnt mention incest or rape.....i said if the baby was dead and delivering would kill the mother....and this isnt about being conservative or liberal...this is about (once again) the candidate that most closely represents my beliefs. that is not obama...

as far as political stances? i actually dont support mccain i was actually a mitt romney supporter until he dropped out. i dont really give a shit who you vote for and i wouldnt not buy kinetic because of that. i wont buy kinetic because you found it necessary to insult smoker because of his views.

Jon wrote:Wow, be careful man, you are starting to sound a little liberal there. If you were a true conservative, no abortion would be allowed. Not even in cases of incest or rape. You should check your parties stance before taking such liberties. You might not sleep tonight knowing that you have the same stance on abortion as Barack Obama.

Thats the precise problem with America.

Just because the majority of the Party has a view doesnt mean its supports are not allowed other views.

Im not a republican or a Democrat per say, im a best person for the job.

I suppose you voted for kerry last election just because hes a democrat...

Just thought you would like this:

I like this one better Joe:

jon did say he voted for bush twice...im starting to wonder if 4 year terms are enough time in office......for example...obama said he had a plan that would make us 100% non reliant on foreign oil within 10 years and that we would be supplying ourselves with oil...they also said when nixon was in office we got 17% of our oil from foreign sources. that number is over 60% now....if it took 40 years to get this way, how can we even get back to the 17% they use as a reference in only 10 years? the great thing is, if obabma won twice, he wouldnt be in office to take responsibility for his promises...

smoker wrote:jon did say he voted for bush twice...im starting to wonder if 4 year terms are enough time in office......for example...obama said he had a plan that would make us 100% non reliant on foreign oil within 10 years and that we would be supplying ourselves with oil...they also said when nixon was in office we got 17% of our oil from foreign sources. that number is over 60% now....if it took 40 years to get this way, how can we even get back to the 17% they use as a reference in only 10 years? the great thing is, if obabma won twice, he wouldnt be in office to take responsibility for his promises...

I appreciate the backup smoker. I know that I might not have earned your respect yet, but you have earned some from me with doing that.

Yes I did vote for Bush twice. At the time he was "the best guy" IMHO. In 2000, I thought that Gore was a tree hugging radical that was out of touch with the average guy. Bush was my only alternative.

In 2004, Kerry was a flip flopping know it all that I could not trust to lead our nation after 9/11. Bush was "the guy" at that moment.

Looking back now, I wish I would have had other alternatives. While I do regret voting for Bush twice, there were really no better alternatives. I do not believe in sitting on the bench. I wish a third party candidate had a snow ball chance in hell to do anything other than gift an election to one party or the other.

But this is the country we live in. These are the parties in power today. We the People have little choice in the process. We have given that power to the parties that be because we are so divisive. If we shed our party affiliations and all the rhetoric that comes with them, we would find that we stand on very similar grounds. We could unite as one great nation. We could get this country back to where we would all like to see it one day again.

I have little hope that we will ever see that day due to the amount of power these two parties hold today. They have all of us right where they want us. The GOP knows that if they overturn Roe v Wade then they lose a key piece to their campaigns. Dems know that if they solve global warming that they will lose their key piece as well. As long as there are divisive issues at hand, they will be pulling our strings as we are their puppets, plain and simple.