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no controversy involved in what I'm saying:

To simplify - if SQ competition was perceived by the masses to be "more accessible" - then there would be more participants.

SPL competition is not only perceived by the masses as being "accessible", but it also has the luxury of being something that more enthusiasts are attracted into car audio to begin with, so you have a bigger potential base of enthusiasts to draw from right from the get-go.

Since SQ doesn't have this luxury, if anything it needs to try harder at creating the image of it being an "accessible" thing to get into, to attract a decent size participant base.

Perception = reality.
You'll have to pardon me on that- but all the above is not subjective opinion, it's marketing fact.

Granted, there are other approaches to 'attracting a greater customer base' than simply painting the picture of it being "more accessible"..
...but creating a focus on the high-end/expensive things that don't directly relate to sound quality paints the opposite picture.

It makes perfect sense, observing historically, why participation is disappointingly low...
...and why SQ on the whole might be perceived by people as being inaccessible, or "something I can't afford to do".

That's a shame, that's all I'm saying - and that's the only opinion in this whole post. The rest is logic.

no lol i completly know what you mean i wasnt saying u were bein confrontational (sp?) i was just saying that cause im not sq oriented at first it sounded as though you were saying that spl was nothing more than throw a sub in a box and go boom. but as i re read what you had written i saw thats not what you were saying at all

+ box = Bill :happy055:

Just kidding

geolemon...

I trully see your point... there's certainly a need to provide a class where there is a simple set of rules to introduce more interest into SQ...

I think that would help evolve potential enthusiasts...

I like SPL too! That was more my claim to fame... 10 years ago.
You know... when SPL competitors did sealed walls?
Anyone? Anyone?
(I'm just dating myself... I never did a wall myself)

In fact, my setup for my Civic in 2006 has actually freed up the ENTIRE trunk of the car... for an SPL demo system, of course (probably oriented to put a smile on the face of the boom-car crowd, as opposed to actual SPL competition...
I'm always screwed in competition, because of "industry affiliations".
(and of course before that, I never competed - but that counts for a whole lot of nothing with them )
That automatically puts me in "Advanced" classes.

Welcome back to the forum Geo!

SQ is very subjective.

What people fail to realize is you dont need that $10,000 or even $620 set of Rainbows to sound good.

You dont need the absolute top of the line most expensive audio equipment.

You just need GOOD equipment matched to work properly. A GOOD install with all the variables weighed and taken into consideration. Also you need a GOOD tuning. Which requires testing and expertise.

Like I said earlier SQ is subjective. What may sound "hella" good to me may sound piss poor to Joe (onyrmrk). It all restes on perception and some factual data.

Theres no need to argue fellas. We all got our points. Sometimes we understand our points and the other persons but the other person just cant grasp yours... Sometimes you just got to let it beeeeeeeee....

(Not pointing fingers etc hell to much to read in this thread but I do see a bit of an arguement)

I still maintain my favorite system came as an experiment I was working with...
Cost me a grand total of $260 or something, plus a hand-me-down head unit from "my good car" when I upgraded it.

That was my first set of experiments with phase-aligned arrays.

All of it was "nothing special" equipment... the amps were practically a steal from Ubid (Jensen's Phase Linear brand), parts express house brand midbasses, Peerless tweeters, overstock discontinued Soundstream Exact comp set Xovers... just stuff I'd need to do an experiment, on the cheap [to put some 'theory applied' context to my bloggish page on "absolute phase for the layman"].
http://www.betteraudio.com/geolemon/Lin ... source.htm

It wasn't pretty, either (that's part of my point - let's encourage experimenters, like SPL does, as opposed to encouraging people to lock themselves into a mortgage-sized commitment that they would be reluctant to even change a wire later on... ).
Well, later I did paint that panel with a matching black texture finish as the center console/subwoofer.
But it was cheap, sounded really great, and unfortunately that winter beater got too rusty to drive anymore. RIP little truck.

in addition to the financial constraints glass noted, i believe the population is getting dumber by the year. all the tv, movies, corporate sponsors and information that is suggested today makes for very poor thinkers. and to actually process the difference between a factory system and a tuned one, and then to actually appreciate that difference is just too darn difficult for most. shot, just turn on the radio (which is why i don't run fm). garbage is not incredibly hard to reproduce anyway. particularly when the gist of all the music is the 808 or related bass drum (or some cheesy synthetic piano). i love bass too, but it just seems a bit simple the way that "music" is interpreted nowadays. just one formula for every 6 months it seems.

Ryan, no argument on this end, I just misunderstood one of his posts. It is all good. I do agree with you in that for good sound, you must have good speaker/amp combo's, good install, good speaker placement, and good tuning by a qualified professional. A car with 100.00 set of components with the best speaker placement can in fact sound better than a set of 1000.00 components in the stock location. I have seen it and heard it. Sound Quality is at best personal satisfaction. One judge can score you perfect on imaging, and at the next contest, another judge can score you poorly. It is subject on the person who is listening at the time. I have much respect for GEO and others on this board. Without them and their rolemodels, I wouldn't be competing now after 10 years hiatus. I may have gotten here (sq competitions) a little too late, but if I can make a person hear the music in a way that is pleasing to the senses, then my car has done it's due. Be it SPL or be it SQ, whatever your pleasure, you are part of a huge community of enthusiasts. Enjoy your stay.

Joe

Never done a line array, but I've considered trying a MTM D'Appolito arrangement before.