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smoker wrote:aahhh......center channel speakers..........ranger you take me back man with all your kenwood equipment and stuff it reminds me of days gone by when dei did not rule the earth........

Hey Smoker, I'm almost old enough to be your Dad. And 10-years ago car audio was a big deal, today its about maximizing profits and the bottom line.

I'm getting burned out, because its hurry up and get the next one out. Don't miss understand, I still love car audio, I just bought my son a car (he just turned 18) and I have already started building a system in it. AND IT WILL HAVE HAND BUILT KICK PANELS. But the business side of car audio is not what it was many years ago. In many cases what was good then is mediocre today. I would not consider replacing my Polk DX series with anything Polk produces today. The quality is not there.

I'm beginning to babble, pleas stop me

"I would not consider replacing my Polk DX series with anything Polk produces today. The quality is not there."

Try the SRs. Incredible speakers, just auditioned them extensively today. One of the best sets out there, they're getting back to their roots of high end audio.

I was just now reading a review on them. And I know a Polk Rep who will sell me a set at a resonable cost.

But school comes first and two classes at $965 each will be taken care of first. Algebraic Concepts II and Introduction To Discrete Mathematics, the fun never stops

Ranger SVO wrote:Hey Smoker, I'm almost old enough to be your Dad. And 10-years ago car audio was a big deal, today its about maximizing profits and the bottom line.
I'm getting burned out, because its hurry up and get the next one out. Don't miss understand, I still love car audio, I just bought my son a car (he just turned 18) and I have already started building a system in it. AND IT WILL HAVE HAND BUILT KICK PANELS. But the business side of car audio is not what it was many years ago. In many cases what was good then is mediocre today. I would not consider replacing my Polk DX series with anything Polk produces today. The quality is not there.
I'm beginning to babble, pleas stop me

naahhh......you only have 12 yrs. on me....i remember what car audio was 10 years ago.......i was selling rf and alpine in 89-90 those were the days when clarion was a joke and alpine was making a cassette changer....cd heads were for the most part preamp and you couldnt buy subs at wal-mart. mtx prefabs ruled the world it seemed like.....and yea your right what was good back then is not so good today....rf for example, kenwood is another kicker, ppi, orion, mtx, aaaahhhh the list could go on and on.....anyway my point being i really dig your system it reminds me of the way it used to be done......im sure is sounds great too

I wish IASCA hadn't done such a good job of "ruining" SQ...

To be frank, it's VERY rare that people aren't initially attracted to car audio because they want big bass. Hell, that's how I started... maybe more of a geek than most others, but I was fascinated that you could create such insane bass levels inside a car... off a 12v battery.

And I know that back in the day (granted, we're going back half my life here), I didn't really pursue SQ like I wanted to, because I always had the impression that to be successful with SQ meant making a $10,000 investment in custom fabrication, motorization, smoothed fiberglass work, upholstery, and potentially structurally compromising vehicle modifications...
...to say nothing of the things that actually matter in a SQ install, like "not the cheap stuff" amplifiers, speakers, huge Dynamat investments, power wiring (and dressing that up as well)...
...and even that is discounting the expertise involved in taking that equipment, and using those fabrication skills and acoustical knowledge to actually make those 'products' sing.

Personally, I do blame a lot of that confused youthful impression on IASCA...
For incorporating a disproportionate amount of judging points on the install, cosmetics, customization, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE those installs... but where is the class for people that want to (or can only afford to) focus on the sound quality aspect, who can't cough up the extra $8,000 to add crazy motorization, fiberglass, lighting, display cradles for your wiring, and other things that look cool but have nothing to do with "sound quality"?
(Yes, they somewhat exist now... but they still judge things that go beyond 'safety' - and more importantly is the perception of "what makes a SQ car")

And of course the magazine features and all the press on "SQ cars" focuses on featuring IASCA competition cars... so naturally they become the image of "what SQ is".

I hope MECA has a nice, pure "SQ enthusiast" class, that doesn't paint a picture of "SQ enthusiasts are more focused on a small-ego flashy look-at-me install than they are actual SQ".

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

But it seems there are plenty of people interested in SQ on the forums.
It's the next natural progression... you build yourself a boom-car, you've got the loud subs... now what?
That's how I started...
"What else is there to learn?"

...that's why we're all here on these forums, right?

"what else if there to learn"

plenty. It is true that Sound off organizations (ie: IASCA, USAC, MECA, SLAP, EMMA) promote complete showcars and score them somewhat unfairly..but they are what brings in the spectators. No one wants to see a car that they can find on any car lot. They want to see the mega-money body enhanced, fiberglassed interior'd creations. Motorization is a thing of the past. It was given only a few points in installation creativity..not the sound q scoring. Install integrity will always be a viable part of Sound Q competition. Viable in that if your system is free from excessive wire, inhibiting speaker cable or power wire (ie: too small for the application), put together with safety in mind (shrinkwrap, butt connectors, soldering ends etc) rather than using electrical tape...these things actually will help your scoreing. You see, when we put my car together, my installer had to go on emergency medical leave and the SPL installer finished up my install. Visually it was stunning cause the fabricator did his job, but behind all the flash, we had over 20ft of power wire bundled up with the same amount of ground, distribution caps everywhere...it was Stinger spaghetti. I am not saying that all SPL installers are this lazy and careless, but in the world of spl, it isn't how pretty the installation plays a part in the overall score, but the amount of SPL can come through those ports.

Sound Q contests will always have the show cars in them, but if the judges are doing their job correctly, the car with the best combination of safety, integrity, and overall sound stage and imaging will win the competition.

btw...you are really good at the smileys. I think. LOL

I'm not trying to whine that they are "judging unfairly"...
Or even complaining that they are trying to encourage "taking your install to the next level".

I'm whining that they aren't providing a "bare MDF and ghetto-door-builds" forum for people who weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth, but are interested in focusing on the sound of their sound quality systems.
...or rather, for creating the impression that "if you ain't got $20K to blow, don't bother".

In SPL on the other hand, competitions are ALL ABOUT the raw, rough, bare-MDF scrappy looking installs... competitors evaluated solely on the performance of the system.
It's also an easier concept for people to grasp - "louder = winner"

With SQ, my fear is that people are discouraged away.
Appearances are that being an SPL competitor is a more accessible thing to jump into than being a SQ competitor.
And the competition sanctioning bodies play a role in that, by what they require for successful competition.

And as a result, the magazines follow suit and paint that same picture to the world.
I just think that's unfortunate - it would be great to focus on sound quality - at least in an entry level division so that it was more accessible.

im just gonna stay out of this...

This I concur completely. I designed a system back in the mid 90's for a girl who wanted to compete in SQ, but still pay less than 1500 bucks total. I set her up with one Kicker comp10, two Power Acoustic amps, one was 300w x1 for the sub and the other was 150watts x2 for her Kicker D20 tweeters and Kicker RS6's with a custom passive.

She won her first time out...and total bill was just over 1400 dollars.

Bwcad1 wrote:im just gonna stay out of this...

that might be best Bill LOL