Car Audio Central - Ultimate Car Audio Forum and Community

im always behaved!!! and i dont have an ipod i think there the devil!

GlassWolf wrote:ever occur to you that the reason so many lists exist is because we all get tired of all the retarded "this brand vs that brand" threads and "what should I get" threads, and "is this brand any good?" threads...

I think a big failure opportunity exists in the fact that these "good vs. bad" threads really are born from the same sort of "branding" (marketing term for "public perception") that is generated from forum banter (as opposed to company advertising... and as opposed to "consumer reports" type of official testing procedures)...

And a lot of that 'forum banter' doesn't have anything to do with how good/bad a product is, but rather how expensive it is, relative to a person's budget. For example, a JL W7 isn't a piece of junk... because someone says so out of frustration that they can't budget $1000 for a sub. It's a damn fine sub, that maybe ranks low on the "bang for the buck" scale - but that's no reflection of quality... and this list is supposed to rank quality, right? ]I'm guilty of that one![/i]
It makes good sense in our case...
We use one buildhouse that can cater to a specific engineering design better than another buildhouse - who happens to specialize in other different technology that we license.
And guess what - we got the two together, to engineer-in technology that the one buildhouse specialized in, into the driver from the other buildhouse.
So where do you draw the line?
And what if one buildhouse had a run of bad drivers that they sent out to us - would that make my company "bad"? Or one product "bad"? Or "good product, but unfortunate manufacturing defect... now resolved?"

Often it's shades of grey.

More often, it's not "this brand sucks"...
...but rather, "this product of this brand sucks, but this product of this brand is good".

So - Maybe someone can generate a list of PRODUCTS, rather than BRANDS?

Maybe a full disclaimer at the beginning of the list would be helpful - it would certainly avoid these arguments, because all you'd have to say is "read the disclaimer - the list IS what it SAYS it is".

Maybe something like"
"This list is generally a concensus opinion of members of this forum, and online communities in general. It is a ranking generally reflecting the overall build quality, business practices, warranty practices, and bang-for-the-buck performance that enthusiast such as ourselves typically seek.

This is by no means an objective list - no independent testing was performed on any products by any manufacturers within the list, and any manufacturer in the list may make some mix of products, some of which would individually fall into the "good", while others would fall into the "bad", making lists like this difficult... and further, many products are application-specific... good for one application, bad for another. That responsibility falls on you.

We highly advise readers to independently research any products they are considering purchasing, simply using this list as a helpful tool in the beginning of that research process.

Something like that?

Again, more insight that the rest of us would have never had... Brought to you by Geolemon!

some of which would individually fall into the "good", while others would fall into the "bad", making lists like this difficult... and further, many products are application-specific... good for one application, bad for another. That responsibility falls on you.

We highly advise readers to independently research any products they are considering purchasing, simply using this list as a helpful tool in the beginning of that research process.

I think that is reasonable to put on there. And then emphasize on the word SEARCH. Like Geo said some companies offer products good to bad. So maybe the G/B/U list part 3 now. Lists what models from companies fall where. Like when you look at say MTX. 9500 would rank good on the list, then the cheappy roadthunder would be placed in avoid.....Even tho that would take lots of time, since we all know there's a lot of products out there, and they are always being updated.. I.E. v2,v3, so the list would have to be updated regularly on product lines.

geolemon wrote:Maybe a full disclaimer at the beginning of the list would be helpful - it would certainly avoid these arguments, because all you'd have to say is "read the disclaimer - the list IS what it SAYS it is".
Maybe something like"
"This list is generally a concensus opinion of members of this forum, and online communities in general. It is a ranking generally reflecting the overall build quality, business practices, warranty practices, and bang-for-the-buck performance that enthusiast such as ourselves typically seek.
This is by no means an objective list - no independent testing was performed on any products by any manufacturers within the list, and any manufacturer in the list may make some mix of products, some of which would individually fall into the "good", while others would fall into the "bad", making lists like this difficult... and further, many products are application-specific... good for one application, bad for another. That responsibility falls on you.
We highly advise readers to independently research any products they are considering purchasing, simply using this list as a helpful tool in the beginning of that research process.
Something like that?

Sounds gravy, baby. I'll go ahead and add that to the top of the good bad n ugly.

Anyone who opposes say "Aye", "eye", or "I"

a: a lot of that list isn't made of forum opinion, it's made of my opinion, and that's based on having to install the gear, and repair it as it's come in for service.

b: the disclaimer was already there, denoting the subjectivity and accuracy of the list.

c: I have to disagree in part, because there are companies who make nothing but varying degrees of good products, and a TON of companies who make nothing but pure shite. There are, mixed in with those, also companies that make, as you said, products that fall from great to junk.

d: rearraging the list has been brought up time and time again on here, and it never fails to turn into a 10+ page thread of whining about what belongs where, how lists suck, and how none of it matters, and nobody should bother with it. Then when the list isn't available (see: eCoustics) two dozen threads pop up within a day asking wtf happened to the list everybody refers to.

I can't make everybody happy all of the time, so it boils down to this. If ya don't like it then don't use it. If you like it, wonderful.


This is now completely off topic for this thead, so I'm closing this one. If someone wants to start one on topic, feel free to continue it there, just to keep things more manageable.

ttfn!