Car Audio Central - Ultimate Car Audio Forum and Community

If you want to see some insane interconnects and some voodoo descriptions of sonic superiority, check out a company called Kharma:
http://www.kharma.com/

Lol, I missed that part.

-Fishy

KikiTheCat wrote:a room in a house is physically far more conducive to good audio than any car, simply by consideration of signal path lengths, obstructions, and noise levels if you pick a half decent room to begin with.

That being said... you can just as easily pick a proper SQ car.

A car will never, ever provide a superior environment to a larger room. If it did, we'd have Operas performed in cargo vans instead of Opera halls.
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Again, irrational arguments to prove a point through exaggeration isn't going to win anyone over.

I had to paste that up here for what is hopefully an obvious reason... as far as I see it, its the pot calling the kettle black...

And i'm not won over, again, for what is hopefully an obvious reason.

I'm not arguing this one any more though. you're welcome to believe what you like about ideal environments, but it's not that difficult to sound deaden a room. You'll never get rid of all of the engine noise and road noise in a car and have an environment with anywhere close to ideal acoustic response.

Repeat.. this is why SQ competitions are in quiet places with everything off... this is no mistake.

If you lived next to a highway it would be an SOB to deaden out the semi's that pass by every 30 seconds, now wouldnt it?

Environment the listening area was in was never part of the argument... I never said a car on the road is better than a house in the country. But a car not in motion on a quiet place is worlds better than a 100% dedicated listening room next to train tracks...

What you want to put where is your business, but as I've said many times before, a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, and if you stick a boom box in a room that's been shaped for acoustic control, you're wasting your time. That system isn't going to have the response needed to take advantage of the room. Again, irrational arguments to prove a point through exaggeration isn't going to win anyone over.

What if you liked the sound of the boom box? SQ is subjective... you might think that 12 year old girl is a goof for liking her boom box more than your 500k stereo.. but she thinks the same of you.

The point was.. there is no prerequisite to a listening room... you dont have to have a preamp/amp setup, projector, and 10 grand in speakers.. you can just as easily have a nice bookshelf system bought at best buy. Whatever makes the person putting it together happy... Not all audiophiles are rich, ya know!

here's a simple analogy that should hold fairly accurate:
we're talking about good audio gear, in a well set up car or house, in either case.
when you start to talk about using a kitchen, or a boom box in the listening room, it's like using a pair of sony 4" speakers in your car set up for SQ, with no other audio gear but a factory radio. same result. weak link.

I dont think you read my posts right... I didn't say use a *kitchen*... I said use a room that was near the entrance TO the kitchen, which is your typical living room where the HT resides.

That is a very... very bad analogy btw... using sony 4" speaks setup for SQ with the factory radio is completely unrelated to using a kitchen as a listening room (which I never said) and using a boom box in a listening room is not the same as 4" speaks setup for SQ.

There are no parallels to be drawn... and I'm honestly not even sure where you were heading with that?

Like arguing sports cars, and using a ferrari with a 3cyl Yugo engine to prove a point.

A car will never, ever provide a superior environment to a larger room. If it did, we'd have Operas performed in cargo vans instead of Opera halls.
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Again, irrational arguments to prove a point through exaggeration isn't going to win anyone over.

Again... obvious...

And I'm still not won over.

Somebody PLEASE kill this thread.

If you cant stand the heat... get out of the home theatre/kitchen!

The thread of course has to end after I reply and point out yet more inconsistencies.

I thought

"A car will never, ever provide a superior environment to a larger room. If it did, we'd have Operas performed in cargo vans instead of Opera halls.
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Again, irrational arguments to prove a point through exaggeration isn't going to win anyone over."

was pretty dam funny...

Can you get any more hypocritical?

Seems ok for kiki to call out my "irrational arguments", but the second I do the same... CLOSE DA THREAD!

Same thing that happened in threads past

I ask that someone else please form an opinion and chime in... it would make this much more interesting...

Why should they and risk line by line assasination of any points made?

So Kiki likes to do serious listening at home whereas you prefer an automobile. BFD. It ain't worth getting everyone's panties in a bunch.

-Fishy

Fishy wrote:Why should they and risk line by line assasination of any points made?

So Kiki likes to do serious listening at home whereas you prefer an automobile. BFD. It ain't worth getting everyone's panties in a bunch.

-Fishy

assasination - good word choice lol. If the points are well backed up, there is nothing to say.

I don't "prefer" an automobile... its just that you can modify a vehicle to one heck of an SQ environment just as easily as you can modify a room in a house for better SQ.

Never said either was better... and that was my whole point!

They are different and have different challenges to overcome.

Can you make the "perfect" listening room? SURE, but it will take a lot of work and effort - and its been done before.

Can you make the "perfect" SQ vehicle? SURE, but it will take a lot of work and effort - and its been done before.

Saying a room in a house is better is the typical view - because its "easy" to think that and you see more people ripping rooms apart and throwing all kinda of foam and other odd things all over the walls/cieling/floors in a house. But, just because more people do it doesn't mean its any better than completely revamping a cars interior to maximize sound quality... hell, there are some superb sounding cars out there that have speaks in the stock locations..

On the same note, Im sure there are some crappy listening rooms because people dont know how to work the EQ/set things up properly.... ON THEIR BOOMBOX.

sorry.. couldn't resist!

spkrman wrote:And I'm still not won over.

The thread of course has to end after I reply and point out yet more inconsistencies.

Seems ok for kiki to call out my "irrational arguments", but the second I do the same... CLOSE DA THREAD!

Same thing that happened in threads past ]

A) Nobody is trying to "win you over". Quite frankly I dont think Kiki (or anyone) could give a rats ass if you agree or not with him.

B) This thread will end when Justin, Chris, Kiki or Myself decides to end it.

C) This is not an argument until you picked one. It became irrational when it turned into a pissing match.

D) Same things happened in past threads when you take it to far. It will continue into the future it appears...

E) My opinion:

Voltage drop across the RCAs. So what your loosing a bit of Voltage. Providing the amplifier has the gain available to match it and still has headroom left over your perfectly fine.

If you care to argue about how to setup an amplifier properly I will slap some facts down- as well as Kiki and other members. Hell even the fairly new ones that know how to set a gain with a DMM will be glad to provide such info for you.

spkrman wrote: i cant see 1.5 ohms over what, 20 feet of wire being "acceptable"... thats gotta be some thin thin wire.

millivolts is a big deal when you only have 2v preouts. Its also a big deal because thats a loss that really doesn't need to be there.

I find it hard to believe even the "high end" RCA's use such thin wire. Is 16-18ga out of the question for RCA cables????

Larger wire would seem to work better... where is that % of drop goin? Where is it comin from?

Would larger wires not "sound better"... particularly if you want to argue that you can hear the difference between amps beyond when they are toward the limits.

i dont understand the math either.. to be honest.

F) Dependant on the conductors employed, raw material quality, build quality (Solder Joints) and so forth this is very possible.

G) No its not really a big deal. Do the math...There will be a resistance loss on any and ALL wire. Its just a fact of electricity...

H) The bigger the wire the larger the RCAs will be overall. Look at the diameter of your current RCAs. Now to run 16-18Ga you can double that size...

I) Larger Ga wire would work better, less resistance. Wheres the loss going? The lost energy will be turned into heat... A loss doesnt come...

J) blah blah blah blah.... Sorry you make no sense here...

K) If you dont understand the topic maybe you shouldnt be commenting on it.


Lastly this pissing match needs to stop. You both have points, you both have opinions and neither is going to agree with the other. As soon as both of you reconginze this maybe this can move on into a more productive post.

Furthermore damn near every post(s) I see spkrman involved into turns into a pissing match- and always with the same person. This needs to stop before one of us puts a stop to it. Ignore eachother or just respect and accept the others opinion unless they are blatently wrong.

Ive had about enough of these arguments, and Spkrman I have about enough of your smart ass remarks back to me.

You want to pick a fight, pick it on the topic at hand. Not a hijacked thread thats gone far off topic which in itself is enough warrant for me to edit all that BS out.

Ok, cool.

Back on topic.

Can someone who knows about voltage drop across an amp's input impedance check my calculations? It CAN be modeled as a simple lumped resistance can't it? I'm kind of a geek when it comes to this stuff and want to make sure I'm doing things right.

Its neat being able to use a bit of "book learning" to figure things out.



-Fishy

http://www.stealth316.com/2-wire-resistance.htm

Some good info there :)

3:30 so Im up and outy...ttyl