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well the reason why i chose the Sig Saur p220 .45 acp is because of its accuracy it has a maximum of 2.25in groupings in targets

geolemon wrote: So obviously my thoughts are, if you live that much in the ghetto that you feel you need to carry a gun, or actually know people who carry a gun... maybe it's time to reevaluate your life and the weird twisted values that must be inherent to your neighborhood and the people you live around who just might not have their heads screwed on all the way -

EVERYONE I work and hangout with carries a gun, and we all wear the same colors to. Should I move, or something?? :happy055:

Either way, the area I grew up in had a few crack house / rap recording studios (also known as crack houses) / drug dealers, a few tweakers and some pretty crazy people. There was times i could count the diffrent guns in a gun fight (they sound diffrent). So growing up, especially once I got older was pretty interesting.

My point, the hard working, blue color neighbors I had carried guns, and I don't blame them. Maybe they couldn't afford to move, chose not to, or like me couldn't, cause my parents were waiting till I got older to move out to the boonies. So not everyone has a choice, and IMO its better to be safe (and follow the laws) than be sorry.

JeremyC wrote:EVERYONE I work and hangout with carries a gun, and we all wear the same colors to. Should I move, or something?? :happy055:

If you have accepted this as "normal", then you have already taken a role in life. Live with it, or change it. Life is full of choices, and the choices you make determine how far you can make it in life - and a big part of THAT is what other people think of when they think of you.
So it's not quite accurate to say "Well, I'm just this way, I only have this job, and can't afford to ______", because if you were another way, you could have another job, and you could afford to _____. It all starts with how complacent you are. If you tell yourself "this is just the way it is", then it is. If you tell yourself "I can't do any better", then you won't. It's very simple. ]My point, the hard working, blue color neighbors I had carried guns, and I don't blame them. Maybe they couldn't afford to move, chose not to, or like me couldn't, cause my parents were waiting till I got older to move out to the boonies. So not everyone has a choice, and IMO its better to be safe (and follow the laws) than be sorry.[/QUOTE]
I can understand that if you grew up somewhere surrounded by something, you just accept that as part of "normal life". Fully understood.
But that doesn't mean you have no choice - you are just less motivated to make that choice, because you've grown to accept something as "normal life".

My neighborhood is hardly prestigious - I'm adjacent to an "economic development zone", you might remember the famous "Lackawanna Six" who were arrested as part of some Al Queda thing? The Lackawana border is walking distance from my house. Like I said, my home is hardly worth $110K - it was $90K when I bought it. And around the corner is a row of duplexes. Very much your "blue collar" neighborhood, and well established - homes here are all post WWII homes.

Also nice and quiet. Lots of retirees. Lots of young families in their first homes. No risk of gunfire. Never heard a gunshot in my life. If there was trouble in the neighborhood, no one would put up with it. Parents would be contacted, kids would be shamed. Parents would be shamed. That's possible when you live around people who take pride in the impression other people have in them and their homes - rather than living around those who are ignorant of others and actually have 'attitudes' about what other people feel.

It's a choice you make - it's not "haves vs have nots", because I live around a lot of "have nots", and I have no fear, no risk - actually chose this neighborhood, having moved FROM a more prestigious neighborhood (my old home doubled in value - so it was a good investment to sell).

EVERYTHING in life is a choice.
Hey - I couldn't AFFORD a gun, how about that?

geolemon wrote:Let me rephrase that...
If I ever lived anywhere where I had to think about "what nearby neighborhood I wouldn't want to enter unless I was armed", I would move, immediately, and I mean that without exaggeration.

Well, it's hard to avoid crime in any large city. We would like to move, but we can't, yet. My dad is about to retire in 2 or 3 years and I have to finish school (one semester left).

The nearest ghetto is about a mile or so away. Most houses in my neighborhood are in the $2-300k range. We paid $240 for mine. My old house (which we still own) was also in a good, desirable neighborhood. Hard to believe we paid $50k for it back in the 80's. Before it was flooded, it was worth about $280k. It's only about 1700 square feet total.

One thing though, I never said I was carrying my gun around with me or using it for urban protection It's really more of a toy. I looked up the concealment costs, and it really isn't worth it for me. $230 every 4 years -not something I think is worth it.

William from NOLA wrote:Well, it's hard to avoid crime in any large city.

Not that avoiding it is a bad idea - certainly I never want to find myself in a bad situation - but poorly planned contingencies can mean death.

Even if I found myself in a situation where someone pulled a gun on me, lets really think about this... I could either:
1) throw my hands up and give the guy with the gun what he really wants
2) draw my weapon, and give the guy with the gun the impression that I am going to shoot him
...which one is more likely to result in him pulling the trigger? Hmm, I can't decide...

I never said I was carrying my gun around with me or using it for urban protection

That's good, because there's really no "self defense" arguement for it. If someone else already has a gun pointed at you, and they realize you are pulling one - you'll have a bullet through you before your hand is on your gun...
...and if they weren't intending to shoot you to begin with, you might just force their hand.
And, that's not to mention the sort of trouble that can follow you simply for possessing a handgun, unless (and sometimes even if) you have it locked up at home. You've seen on TV simple, routine pullovers that turned into 'throw the driver and passenger down on the ground, handcuff them, call for backup, guns drawn and pointed, etc' because they found a gun in the car. :help:

And the statistics on the number of legally-owned gun accidents in the home (accidental shootings and the like) far outnumber actual criminal related shootings, which really illustrates the huge gap between people's perceived risk of shootings in their neighborhoods and the acutal risk. But that can be filed right along with the statistic that indicates that actually the minority of people actually have common sense. And that's sadly no joke either...

We would like to move, but we can't, yet. My dad is about to retire in 2 or 3 years and I have to finish school (one semester left).

That's still choice. You are choosing to stay put. There's no "can't" in there, except that you used the word "can't". Just realize that, because I would think it would be sad if that kind of attitude kept you from seeing other opportunities that might be available to you exist that you don't realize because you convinced yourself they didn't.

[quote="geolemon"]If you have accepted this as "normal", then you have already taken a role in life. Live with it, or change it. Life is full of choices, and the choices you make determine how far you can make it in life - and a big part of THAT is what other people think of when they think of you.
So it's not quite accurate to say "Well, I'm just this way, I only have this job, and can't afford to ______", because if you were another way, you could have another job, and you could afford to _____. It all starts with how complacent you are. If you tell yourself "this is just the way it is", then it is. If you tell yourself "I can't do any better", then you won't. It's very simple. ]

You do realize I am in the military right?? We wear the same colors, all of us carry guns........... I thought the :happy055: face would give it away.

Honestly your house now, sounds like my parents house did in 78 when they purchased it. It was a nice neighborhood, mostly built after WW2 and was full of retirees, and older middle class people. The problem starts, when they die or move into an retirement home. Most don't take the best care of their house, so the price drops, as do the prices of the houses around them. That price drop opens the door to lower and lower income households, and the problems SOME of them bring.

And William is right, you can't always get away from it. I was in the Taco bell drive thru one night, and these guys rolled by staring.(the same taco bell I worked at thru high school) I didn't say a thing, wasn't bumping the system, just minding my own business. Till JoeyC cousin,s wife asked them if they wanted a picture. Thats all it took, one of them got out, pulled a gun, and fired a round past my head.

Well since we are on the subject, I have some neat info for you about Konya Turkey, and it kinda fits what we are talking about.

They have metal detectors EVERYWHERE. When you go into a mall, you go thru a metal detector. When you walk into your hotel, you go thru a metal detector.

In turkey it is actuall illeagle to carry ANY type of weapon. Doesn't matter if its a pocket knife or a gun, its against the law.

thats a nice present for yourself. i also got my self a gun related item for early xmas

geolemon: gotcha


sinister: lol, gun related item. That is sweet. One day I wish to start collecting some older and strange looking guns.