Best 10" for full range of music

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:22 am

"Ok... let's pick on the ADS speakers... gimme an example."

Note I never said they were bad, they just haven't really moved any further since a few years ago. They were and are still good speaks. But we're talking about a/d/s here, in relation to what they used to be, these should be upper end reference level speakers. What I'd expect from a/d/s more than anything is an improved motor design. I'd also pay attention to designing a woofer that isn't too heavily inclined to IB applications as the 3 series woofers are, and improving the upper end response of the woofer. They have a nice smooth and natural sound to them, but they don't really wow me. I'd put their performance on par, if not slightly under something like Boston Pros, Quart References, sets like that.

racerraul · Post by **racerraul** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:23 am

Bwcad1 wrote:but at the same point how can we assume there any diffrent?

We can't... that is why we need facts & not assumptions... assumptions based on irrelevant issues are useless... perhaps only good to form a hypothesys, but then you follow up with an experiment or research in search of answers....

are you trying to say that my field has incompetent workers only?

I don't know wher you got that idea...

again i used or as an expample im speaking of many diffrent materials such as copper aluminum and many many others. this is just some valid points that lead to a much bigger picture.

I am not arguing the diff in the quality of metals you speak of... I asked legitimate questions to see the relevance to the subject at hand...
So I'll ask them again...
How can we apply the ore quality difference in the semiconductor market?
And how does it impact speaker contruction methods & materials for that matter?
Would I be correct in saying that since import automobiles generaly test better, last longer & offer over all better quality over a comparable domestic that we can make the same assumption across diff manufacturers based on that?
I don't think so... If something indeed is better I want to know why, & don't want a salesman to tell me to remember Pearl Harbor in an effort to stop my research.

racerraul · Post by **racerraul** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:28 am

Jonathan wrote:"Ok... let's pick on the ADS speakers... gimme an example."

Note I never said they were bad, they just haven't really moved any further since a few years ago. They were and are still good speaks. But we're talking about a/d/s here, in relation to what they used to be, these should be upper end reference level speakers. What I'd expect from a/d/s more than anything is an improved motor design. I'd also pay attention to designing a woofer that isn't too heavily inclined to IB applications as the 3 series woofers are, and improving the upper end response of the woofer. They have a nice smooth and natural sound to them, but they don't really wow me. I'd put their performance on par, if not slightly under something like Boston Pros, Quart References, sets like that.

I find it extremely hard to find any details behind the motor technolgies used in car audio comp sets on the web...

It just isn't as readily available as it is in the DIY RAW driver market. Which is the reason I asked the question...

Please share what you know...

Bwcad1 · Post by **Bwcad1** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:32 am

i understand where you are coming from and thats what im saying. how many speakers have stamped baskets? thats what i do. precision metal stampings. and i gave you examples of dies from china where the baskets are stamped. you cannot make a speaker with out materials and if there materials are sub par then how do you expect them to be on the same level as american made products? most imported cars come from japan who have incredible steel refining methods japan and china are 2 diffrent companys with diffrent standards and materials. i would buy a car from japan anyday because i have designed tooling here in the us and i have seen japans dedication to there work.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:34 am

I think all of it just depends on how much of a lemming you are

Which is why I form my own opinions instead of relying on subjective or objective data to make a decision for me. Magazines like CR, Car Audio and Electronics, while they may be entertaining to read, are simply a way for a potential buyer to insult his/her own intelligence and decision making ability. The best way to make a decision is to educate yourself on the given topic and formulate your own opinion instead of relying on a bunch of charts and graphs to be printed up. I've seen enough bogus CR reviews, worked on enough imports, dealt with enough manufactured equipment from all around the world, to motivate myself to focus on my own knowledge of engineering and manufacturing to make an educated decision. And I haven't been disappointed yet by my decision to do so.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:36 am

"most imported cars come from japan who have incredible steel refining methods japan and china are 2 diffrent companys with diffrent standards and materials. i would buy a car from japan anyday because i have designed tooling here in the us and i have seen japans dedication to there work."

Most "import" cars are built here. That's why their quality has improved. Some parts content comes from Japan, but mostly raw materials that are tooled and assembled in the US. The only vehicle Toyota doesn't build here is the RAV4 crossover SUV, in which they're currently building a plant in Ontario to assemble those in North America. It isn't about the ethnicity. It's about management and people. There are crappy plants here, in Japan, in China, Germany, wherever. It's all about focus and dedication to the product at hand.

Bwcad1 · Post by **Bwcad1** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:41 am

exactly what im trying to say china is just notorious for bad build quailty. and you are correct most forein cars are built here where material quality is better. i wanst just speakin about automobiles from japan anything from japan is a good quality product because of there un wavering dedication!

racerraul · Post by **racerraul** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:07 pm

Jonathan wrote: Which is why I form my own opinions instead of relying on subjective or objective data to make a decision for me.

Glad you made this clear... we should not take opinions & assumptions as fact. Specially when they can be detrimental to a product line. I am a firm believer that all opinions & assumptions should be followed by a test in search for answers...

Magazines like CR, Car Audio and Electronics, while they may be entertaining to read, are simply a way for a potential buyer to insult his/her own intelligence and decision making ability.

You don't have to sell me on this... I can't stand all the crap that is being published in mag today... take for example CA&E's review on the new Zapco component set.

The best way to make a decision is to educate yourself on the given topic and formulate your own opinion instead of relying on a bunch of charts and graphs to be printed up. I've seen enough bogus CR reviews, worked on enough imports, dealt with enough manufactured equipment from all around the world, to motivate myself to focus on my own knowledge of engineering and manufacturing to make an educated decision. And I haven't been disappointed yet by my decision to do so.

Is this not what we are attemting here? Trying to find the truth behind the rumors behind ADS' products to form a more educated opinnion??? At least you have stepped forward and admited that your dissappointment is based on lack of new products & detailed a deisgn characteristic you would like to see changed in the speaker specs.

Bwcad1 wrote:how many speakers have stamped baskets? thats what i do. precision metal stampings. and i gave you examples of dies from china where the baskets are stamped. you cannot make a speaker with out materials and if there materials are sub par then how do you expect them to be on the same level as american made products?

Well, based on your input I am going to form the following Hypothesys...
"Qualities in the metals used in speaker contrution have a dramatic impact on performance & reliability of ADS current line of speakers".
Do we have the test results in place to verify this, & thus justify the tag placed on ADS products after the DEI aquisition?

Bwcad1 · Post by **Bwcad1** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:11 pm

dont get me wrong im the same type of person i research every product i am interested in. and i form my own oppinons from the information i collect. all i was trying to do is expose some of the flaws of chinese products and y i form the opinions i have about them.

OnYrMrk · Post by **OnYrMrk** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:20 pm

Sooooo

What is a good 10" sub for the Full range of music???