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i Agree with you bill... I have always loved loved loved Vipers... Not because you dont see them around... but just because they are beasts of cars... (That and that Show VIPER... man i wish i could have a Viper that could morph)

But Vettes... i have always liked as well... They are great cars... you just cant beat em.... now... As far as Challenger goes... As I said before and Bill is reiterating now... why build a car that is going to be limited production at a high price? So what you will get a bunch of ppl buy them out at a super high price but not make any money off of it... Why do you think the Grand Caravan is the most successful Doge vehicle line produced??? It started with being a vehicle that solved a problem, and also was a great vehicle...

Challenger needs to answer this problem: Where are the MOPAR Muscle Cars gone?
Answer: Challenger!
Why: Spirit, Heritage, Power, Affordability...

Historically Muscle Cars were NOT Expensive... So therefore... these new muscle cars, are not Pony cars... with the exception of the Stang, but Muscle Cars.

Basically... Keep the car what its supposed to be intended for... Fun, Sleek looks and kick ass performance.

CaptainPioneer wrote:i Agree with you bill... I have always loved loved loved Vipers... Not because you dont see them around... but just because they are beasts of cars... (That and that Show VIPER... man i wish i could have a Viper that could morph)

But Vettes... i have always liked as well... They are great cars... you just cant beat em.... now... As far as Challenger goes... As I said before and Bill is reiterating now... why build a car that is going to be limited production at a high price? So what you will get a bunch of ppl buy them out at a super high price but not make any money off of it... Why do you think the Grand Caravan is the most successful Doge vehicle line produced??? It started with being a vehicle that solved a problem, and also was a great vehicle...

Challenger needs to answer this problem: Where are the MOPAR Muscle Cars gone?
Answer: Challenger!
Why: Spirit, Heritage, Power, Affordability...

Historically Muscle Cars were NOT Expensive... So therefore... these new muscle cars, are not Pony cars... with the exception of the Stang, but Muscle Cars.

Basically... Keep the car what its supposed to be intended for... Fun, Sleek looks and kick ass performance.

exactly my point! you know y gm is coming back its because there building what people want quality vehicles with great features and good prices! the Pontiac g8 is gonna be a v8 powerd rwd sports car with 26+mpg exactly what we crave!!! and thats exactly y gm will come back. and company's like for and Chrysler wont unless they realize what there doing to themselves

The new camaros will most likely will have the new ls3 motors that the 2007 and newer vetts have. The ls3 is 430 hp comapred to the 400 hp ls2. The 505 hp motor in the zo6 vett is a ls7 and i doubt they will ever put it into a camaro.

Personally i dont mind the LS2 motor... I think its a great jumping off point... The LS3... i know nothing about but if it can get around the same MPG as what they are claiming out of the LS2 then im Sold... Plus come on now... THe LS2 is just a sexy motor...

As far as I know the only differences between the ls2 and the ls3 are all internal. They will look the same. And the ls3 is 6.2 liters compared to 6.0 for the ls2.

And as far as gas mileage is concerned if you cant afford an extra few hundred bucks per year for gas then can you really afford a $30+ k car? Gas mileage is the last thing I worry about, if I remember at all.

Its just the principal of the thing for me really.. Plus sooner or later trust me... Gas is heading for a huge price hike soon... and a couple hundred bucks a year will be more like a couple thousand...

CaptainPioneer wrote:Its just the principal of the thing for me really.. Plus sooner or later trust me... Gas is heading for a huge price hike soon... and a couple hundred bucks a year will be more like a couple thousand...

o god dont say that im not looking forward to paying anymore than i have to, time to bust out the old bike lol.

Gas will never get so high that people cant afford it. There are many reasons why but the main one is greed, if nobody can buy it they cant make a profit. They keep it high enough to get max profits but low enough to sell max volume. Its a balance they try to mantain religiously, thats why prices change a few times a week.

Its different in Europe because the have an awesome public transportation system.

tomcat wrote:And as far as gas mileage is concerned if you cant afford an extra few hundred bucks per year for gas then can you really afford a $30+ k car? Gas mileage is the last thing I worry about, if I remember at all.

And that statement many have held true 15-20 years ago, but now the average price for a new car is $30K... especially when you have so many that go for the lease and keep the payments lower... I remember when sports/ muscle/ pony cars were cheap by today standards and also when gas was scarce which brought about the end to them... If they wanted, the manufacturers could bring about new age muscle and pony cars that are big power and affordable, but like the originals of days of old... they would have to have less options... There in lies the problem... Would the public by less equiped vehicles with more and more going into newer vehicles all the time? Heck, they show ya the base price of a vehicle in a commercial, but try to find one on a dealers lot.

the LS2 will be detuned in the Camaro to insure it doesn't step on the toes of the Corvette.
GM is notorious for doing this, as they did with the LT1 in the Impala SS.

Also, Subster, If Chryslers can't hold their value, why did a '71 Cuda recently sell for $3.4M? Or, do you happen to shit gold bricks?