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Performance Myths...

A Place to Discuss Modifications done to your cars.

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Worst Nightmare
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Post by Worst Nightmare »

CaptainPioneer wrote:Cold air induction kits whats your say on those... I know alot of ppl advertise that you will get a 5 to 15hp gain in power and some claim greater mpg... If my logic is wrong tell me but when u push more air into an engine do u not also increase gas consumption? Maybe the cold air induction just means that it is going to give the same amount of air to the engine just colder resulting in less thermal loss of power, i guess forced air induction would result in both greater hp and loss of mpg... Am i wrong here.?
Anything you do "performance-wise" to an engine will (maybe) increase the efficiency. If you DON'T drive any differently (keep your foot out and let the increase in hp/torque work for you) you will increase gas mileage. Basically the increased efficiency allows you to not hit the gas pedal as much/as hard.

However, the increased efficiency does mean that you will use more gas due to the fact that you've also increased fuel-in/exhaust-out IF you race around more.

Make sense?
zero808
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Post by zero808 »

wow.
when you buy an aftermarket intake, you're paying for the less restrictive tubing, not the filter in the engine bay. agreed, engine heat kills your max potential, but the majority of people that buy intake will tend to lower their vehicles so keeping the intake away from the water (CAI is usually in front of the wheel by the bumper) is more important than +1-2whp
someone said cold air intakes are not useful. if your piping is going all the way down to the bumper, expect decent gains. colder air = denser air = more airflow per butterfly opening = more gas squeezed = bigger bang = more HP
btw: manufacturers usually take the cheapest route when building their parts. whatever can be massed produced is fine with them. mandrel bent tubing costs too much to be used.
hotter plugs are only used for high comp engines or Forced Induction engines. if any gas is left in the cylinder after combustion, detenation has a higher chance of occuring. 'hot' plugs burns off as much gas possible.
not much of a HP gain, but more of a 'you never know' safety feature
heads, cams, manifolds - again, manufacturers build based on best performance at the cheapst cost. electronically, the computer will learn that it can sqeeze more into the chamber at once and get better gains. also, computer programmers are what makes later model cars better after mods. dyno tuning is where you'll perfect the power
pulleys are made to free up restricted HP, not for gains, much like lightened flywheels. is it easier to move 100lbs or 25lbs? same thing with pulleys, easier to move 8oz when 2lbs
and hi perf exhausts -- the less restrictive the better, but people bolt on turbo exhausts (the least restrictive exhaust) on a NA motor, thus producing the bee sting! all DOT approved exhausts are 90something DB or lower
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GlassWolf
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Post by GlassWolf »

Worst Nightmare wrote:1. CAI (cold air induction) - unless your car/truck is putting out 300+ hp stock, this will only yield little results.
These can help on vehicles like diesel trucks where air flow is a major limiting factor, but the main thing with a CAI is that it actually draws in cold outside air.. not air from right next to your manifold like most of the ricer CAIs seem to, by placing a cone filter over or behind the engine.
2. Headers, high-flow catalytic converters, larger diameter exhaust, y-pipe/x-pipe, etc. Now we're talkin' "butt-dyno" gains!. JBA headers, hi-flow cat converters and x-pipe gave me 30+ hp dyno proven. Exhaust mods WORK!
yes exhaust enhancements work if you get good ones (tuned ceramic coated headers that are well made, good mufflers, etc) and not these bolt-on cat-back systems. A new exhaust will only add any real benefit if it's from the exhaust ports on the block back. Otherwise your restrictive, turbulant manifold and downpipe(s) are still choking your flow before you get to the expensive bolt-on shiny crap you just blew $500 on.
3. GEARS! - Installing 4.56 gears and Richmond powertrax no-slip netted me a FULL SECOND less 0-60 times! May not be a factor for you 400+hp turbo guys, but for a torquey V8, it WORKS! This is probably my most notable upgrade.
again, an LSD and lower gearing is a great way to increase 0-60 times, but you pay for it in highway fuel economy by losing yourtaller gears generally speaking, and it's not a cheap upgrade. My Dana 60 suregrip LSD with 4.10 gears ran me about $3500 with Strange axles, and that's before the upgraded suspension for the rear end, or the wheels and tires.
3. Hypertech, Superchip, etc. I had a Hypertech programmer. It allowed me to compensate for my 20'' (31'' tire size) to bring the shift points back in order. Otherwise they really aren't worth the $$$.
This entirely depends again on the vehicle. FWith a good programmer on a diesel truck you're looking at massive gains in HP and torque. On a small displacement import where the engine is already tweaked pretty fully off the lot to squeeze power from a small motor, you won't see as much gain.. but all in all, this is usually the best bang for the buck you can get for a simple "bolt on" type upgrade to an OBD-II car.
1. SUPERCHARGER/TURBO - for all you guys looking for moderate hp/torque gains, forget everything mentioned above and save your money for a supercharger/turbo. You can't beat forced-induction :attitude .
no replacement for displacement. period. that aside, forced induction is a good way to add substantial power, but understand that if you want serious amounts of boost from any FI system, it's going to cost you. You're looking at an ECM reprogram if sing EFI, new cams, probably transmission upgrades to handle added power, and a new bottom end for the engine consisting of low compression pistons, forged rods, and so forth since you'll want a lower CR for forced induction to get more bars of boost.

In regards to the throttlebody upgrade, be aware that your loss of low end torque and higher horsepower is an indication of not a gain in actual power, but a shift in your powerband. A number of bolt-ons use this mentality to make you think you're gaining power when all you're really doing is making power at a higher RPM range instead. Looks nice on a dyno, but torque moves cars, and your acceleration curve is always going to parallel your torque curve, regardless of the hosepower numbers.
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GlassWolf (aka KikiTheCat)
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Worst Nightmare
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Post by Worst Nightmare »

I just want to explain a little further......

To be exact: I have a Dodge Ram 5.9 (360ci) V8.

Glasswolf - stick to things you know (maybe car audio?) but definitely not new car/truck performance.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but ALLLLLLLLL new transmissions have OVERDRIVE, or 5 speed, which negates your gas mileage because of overgearing theory.

Check out 4.56 gear reviews on dodgetalk.com.

Ok, now I understand, you have a diesel. diff animal. planning on one myself shortly.....

and ceramic coating not even relevent! My JBA titanium ceramic only controls under hood temps. (they claim!)
Bwcad1
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Post by Bwcad1 »

i cannot wait to see this! lol u just opend a can of worms and you have no idea what your talking about lol. he does know preformance and he does know car audio
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Post by Ryan from Ohio »

Well just to interject here...

I know my GM cars...

WHY put a CAI on a car that has a heated throttle body?

It has antifreeze going thru it, thus warming it. SO why try to get cold air in there if it has to go thru purposely hot metal?
-Ryan
www.caraudiocentral.net - Your #1 Car Audio Resource on the Net!
Worst Nightmare
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Post by Worst Nightmare »

A heated TB. Okkkkkkkk......

Let me explain. On Turbo-diesel, all the normal "bolt-ons" make MAJOR gains due to the fact that they increase the BOOST of the turbo.

Not so on normally aspirated vehicles....
Worst Nightmare
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Post by Worst Nightmare »

And Ryan. Nice try, bud :) . Hope your not that car tech challenged
Ryan from Ohio
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Post by Ryan from Ohio »

Eh?

Seriously... All the TB on my cars have antifreeze run into them.

Why do they do this? There is nothing there to freeze, no liquids.

So if its hot, the air passing over it will get some heat from heat transfer, naturally...

SO what If I plugged them two ports off so not coolant goes into the TB?

I know the coolant is warmer than the air...

:happy055:
-Ryan
www.caraudiocentral.net - Your #1 Car Audio Resource on the Net!
Worst Nightmare
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Post by Worst Nightmare »

DUDE - are you thinking INTAKE? No throttle body I've EVER seen has coolant run thru.

You MUST be thinking intake.....
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