Does anyone have a MAaudio amp?

[CaptainPioneer]

well damnpening factor would be how wet he got his tighty whiteys after he blew one heheh

In reference to his ass

[OnYrMrk]

speckled with poopiedust....appetizing....

[CaptainPioneer]

ok now uve gone 2 far! eewww

[GlassWolf]

FAQ section has information on amplifiers covering THD, IMD, Damping, and all of the other specs you usually see people ask about.
All ya need to do is read it :)

threads:
amplifier fundamentals parts one and two
also here:
http://www.glasswolf.net/caraudio/amplifiers.html

"Damping Factor degradation: Using super low impedance loads on an amplifier will degrade the system's damping factor (discussed in detail below). Degradation of damping factor means that the amplifier will have less "control" over the speaker system, possibly resulting in "boomy" bass response.

So, just because an amplifier has a super powerful 2 ohm rating, don't look for ways to wire up multiple speakers in order to "use" this power! Treat the 2 ohm rating as "headroom" and know that your amp has the ability to more easily handle the most difficult "normal" speaker loads that you are likely to ever encounter. If you need more power, get a second amp. Two medium powered amps are better than one monster (what if your one big amp dies? With two smaller amps at least you can still run!).
Noise

All amplifiers generate a certain amount of electrical noise. Generally, the more powerful the amplifier, the more noise. If you turn on an amplifier (with the input jacks disconnected) and listen to a speaker you can clearly hear a hissing sound. This pretty much represents the noise floor of the amplifier. For a powerful system, the noise might seem pretty obvious; however when actual music is playing the noise will be totally masked.

All electrical circuits generate a certain amount of noise. Better designs minimize the amount of noise, however no matter how good the design there will always be some. The noise is generated by the movement of electrons in the system and cannot be eliminated (unless you chill your equipment to absolute zero!). The noise floor of an amplifier by itself is usually not obviously audible in a typical car (unless you are sitting right next to a speaker). However, the remaining components in a system (preamp, equalizer, processors, etc.) each add in some noise. So, the total system noise (when no music is playing) might be objectionable. If this is a serious problem, a device called a noise gate can be used. Such a device is essentially a "squelch" which is wired in just before the power amps (or electronic crossover in multi-way systems). The device basically cuts noise from upstream components when no music is playing. Most noise gates have adjustable controls to set the threshold at which noise cut begins and also to set the amount of desired noise cut.

The noise floor of an amplifier is relatively constant, meaning it does not increase with increasing output signal (unless the amplifier has a poorly regulated power supply). In other words, the amplifier's noise floor is pretty much the same whether or not music is playing loudly or softly. So, when music is playing softly, the noise will be proportionally larger. When music is playing loudly, the noise is essentially "buried" or masked.

As stated, an amplifier with a poorly regulated power supply can create some additional noise. If the filtering of the power supply is marginal, the "smoothness" of the DC power supply voltage will be degraded when the amplifier is playing loudly. This will result in additional noise being added to the system (generally in the form of alternator whine). This type of noise isn’t really part of the noise floor. Such noise is often inaudible when music is playing loudly. It can be clearly heard however when playing test tones at levels near the output limit of the amplifier (don't try this unless you are thoroughly familiar with testing practices... blown speakers will otherwise be the result!)"

"Distortion

ALL amplifiers alter input signals, generally in two ways: they make them stronger (amplify them), and they add characteristics which did not exist in the original signal. These undesirable characteristics are lumped together and called distortion. Noise can be considered a type of distortion and was discussed in the above section.

Everyone is familiar with gross distortion, the sound quality that results when turning up a radio or boom box to "full blast”. An excessive amount of amplifier clipping (see section below) results in hideous distortion that would be totally unsatisfactory for a sound system. However, not all distortion is blatant. In addition, there are several types, two of which will be discussed. Knowing what causes distortion will help you to prevent it from occurring. Knowing how to control distortion is important because excessive distortion can be detrimental to speaker systems (and your reputation).

Harmonic distortion: One common type of distortion is harmonic distortion. Harmonics of a signal are signals which are related to the original (or fundamental) by an integer (non decimal) number. A pure tone signal has no harmonics; it consists of only one single frequency. If 100 Hz pure tone signal was applied to the input of an amplifier, we would (upon measurement with special test equipment) find that the output signal of the amplifier was no longer pure. Careful measurements would likely show that several "new" frequencies have appeared. These new frequencies are almost certain to be integer multiples of the original tone; they are the harmonics of the original signal. In the case of a 100 Hz input tone, we might expect to find tones at 200, 300, 400, 500 (etc.) Hz. We would also probably notice that the odd harmonics are much stronger than the even harmonics (we will not go into the reasons why in this article). In a good amplifier, the harmonics will be much weaker than the original tone. By much weaker, we mean on the order of a thousand times for decent amplifiers.

All amplifiers are generally rated for Total Harmonic Distortion (or THD), usually at full power output over a given frequency band with a particular load. Good values are anything less than 0.5% THD. When an amplifier is measured for THD, a pure tone is applied to the input and the output is measured with special test equipment. The energy of the pure tone is measured, and the energy of the harmonics is measured. Those two values are compared, and a THD rating is calculated. A THD rating of 1% means that the total energy of all the harmonics combined is one one-hundredth of the energy in the fundamental.

Harmonic distortion (although certainly undesirable) is one of the more tolerable types of distortion as long as it is kept reasonably low. Distortion levels of 10% may be very tolerable with music so long as the 10% level is only "occasional." (10% THD on a pure tone can easily be heard by the human ear... but who listens to pure tones?) The reason that a seemingly high value of THD is acceptable for music is partially because many sounds in nature are rich in harmonics. Also, most decent cassette decks (which most people agree sound pretty good) have THD (off the tape that is) of several percent. Worse, even good speakers can have THD up to 10%, especially at low frequencies! All in all, the human ear can tolerate a fair amount of THD before it becomes objectionable.

Do two amplifiers with identical THD ratings sound the same, everything else being equal? Not necessarily (but differences will be subtle). The reason is that the THD specification states nothing about where the harmonics are in the frequency band. For example one amplifier could have a dominant harmonic at one frequency and a second amplifier could have a dominant harmonic at a very different frequency. Or, one amplifier could have a few "big" harmonics while a second has many weak ones. These situations could easily result in identical THD ratings. The variations could be easily measured with laboratory equipment. However do not be overly concerned. Minor variations in THD ratings will not cause major differences in sound when listening to music. With pure tones as input signals it might be fairly easy to discern which of two amplifiers was used (but again, who listens to tones?)

Intermodulation distortion: Intermodulation distortion is the second "major" type of distortion that is often specified for amplifiers. Intermodulation distortion is much more objectionable to the human ear because it generates non-harmonically related "extra" signals which were not present in the original. It is analogous to someone singing way off key in a choral group

Intermodulation distortion (sometimes abbreviated IM) is more complicated to test for and specify. Basically, two pure tones are simultaneously applied to the input of the amplifier. If the amplifier were perfect, the two tones (and only the two tones)would be present at the amplifier output. In the real world, the amplifier would have some harmonic distortion (as described above), but careful observation of the output signal (using laboratory equipment) would reveal that there are a number of new tones present which cannot be accounted for as a result of harmonic distortion. These "new" tones are called "beat products" or "sum and difference" frequencies, and are a result of the interaction of the two pure tones within the amplifier. No amplifier is perfect, all have some non linear characteristics. Whenever two signals are applied to a nonlinear system, new signals (in addition to the original two) are generated. For a good amplifier, the new signals are very small in relation to the two original tones. This is fortunate, since the ear can detect much lower levels of intermodulation distortion as compared to harmonic distortion.

It should be noted that distortion measurements on amplifiers are made with test tones. These tones are usually sine waves (pure tones), which represent the simplest possible test signal to measure and quantify. A music signal is an extremely complicated waveform consisting of many constantly changing sine waves. Since music has so many harmonics and frequencies present, quantifying how two different amplifiers will sound by using simple THD and IM specifications is extremely difficult. In other words, just because two amplifiers have the same published specs for THD and IM does not mean that they are equivalent. Fully and completely quantifying the technical performance of an amplifier would be extremely complicated and costly (and would probably have little benefit in the end). Most amplifiers available today (from reputable manufacturers) have THD and IM levels low enough to yield excellent performance (so long as they are not overdriven). This leads nicely into our next topic..."

and on a side note, there really is a place for MA Audio.. typically that'd be at a flea market or a pawn shop.

[joeyc]

Or the trash

[audiobass10]

Running it at 1 Ohm would be fine for competition. But for daily driving it yields a 1% Total Harmonic Distortion rating. That to me is just unacceptable.

Not to call you out or anything, but do you think you could tell the difference? I'd bet my bank account you couldnt'. These golden ears so many people have are getting old. THD means basically nothing IMO. And i'm sticking with it. Tell you what..I'm willing to bet I can take a Legacy Amplifier on a Rainbow Audio or whatver high end SQ sub you want..and you can use an Arc/zapco/mcintosh amp...do a blind test..and you tell me which amp was the legacy. It's just not that important. I have no problem with people paying money for high end equipment. It's proven that the componentry inside the amplifiers is buiilt better than that of a cheap amplifer..but as far as you actually noticing it....ehhhh. Prove it and i'll believe it.

[Robert Wollenberg]

I thought the human ear couldn't pick up on distortion until it reached levels closer to 10 percent or so?

[OnYrMrk]

I would be more worried about what distortion would do the the voice coil of my subwoofer rather than whether it sounds right or not. But that is just me, you see, with Focal and Audison, I don't need to worry about distortion issues....

[GlassWolf]

don't get too caught up in numbers. most of them are inaccurate or misleading anyway.
The problem you run into is how these specs are actually measured. Mfgrs never specify this, and things like THD have several standards that can be used giving drastically differing results. For example, you can measure THD with a burst or sustained signal, at a narrow bandwidth, or a full 20-20KHz signal, at various power outputs, and any change to one of these functions will alter the numbers you get.
Tube amps typically put out 1 to 10% THD, and people pay $35K for a tube amp rated at 45 watts x 2 @ 8 ohms.
Note, you don't drop the load in half and get twice the power from a tube amp, either.
Then you have to understand that a speaker by it's own nature of design produces a good 10% distortion all on it's own.

Anyway, the point is don't get too number-conscious.

[Waldodamon]

my buddies MA audio amplifier is junk. stay away from them. definetly overrated and not to mention like someone said earlier the THD sucks at lower than 2 ohms and they do make the worst crap ever

Did your buddy upgrade his big 3? Do you know what the big 3 is? Did your buddy install an HO alt? You already proved after stating that their THD sucked that you weren't even sure what THD WAS. Hmmm...

I have been running two MA Audio HC4002 4000 watt amps for over two years now. Are they SQ amps? Is ANYTHING made by MA Audio an SQ product? HELL no, and anyone who may have been convinced that they were before buying them should be ashamed of their lack of research and lack of education, not pissed at MA, BOTTOM LINE.

I can name people from CAF, and people from my local area who have won SPL comps with these amps. So before you go calling out junk, like you know the difference, do some research and gain some experience. Sure, they may not be DD, they may not stand up to the Z1, but HeLLLLOOOO PRICE TAG!! Plus the Z1 is a 5000 wrms amp, not 4000.

As far as underrated, learn how to read, then read the fine print, which I will admit MA is known for. My amps are 4000 wrms, but only at 16v. I had mine benched at 14v, well, ok, 13.8, and at 1 ohm one put out 3543 wrms, the other 3551.

Sorry if this seems like a DICK post. I just get annoyed when people with obvious lack of experience start calling out products as junk. Your friend uses one amp, ONE, from a particular line of MA. It doesn't meet his OR your standards, in which we still don't know anything about the install, and suddenly EVERY LINE OF MA AUDIO'S PRODUCTS ARE JUNK. Hmmmm.....

It's funny. I had a kid from my area make the same claim about MA. This same kid blew a Type-R by not only hooking up just ONE VC on a dual VC sub, but ALSO sending that ONE VC 800 wrms......again HMMMMMMM.....