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great guys. I talked to him again and let him read this thread and Kiki's forum and he decided to try not having a rearfil after he put in his JL VR600-CSi Component System

OnYrMrk wrote:I look at it as this. If you have a home stereo..do you have front speakers and back speakers? I didn't think so. Now do you have a home theater? If so you will have speakers in front of you possibly on the side and definately behind you. To give you the feeling of being surrounded by the effects.
Now since these are stereo contests, My thinking would be that emulate your home stereo. Speakers in the front, none in the rear, except a sub of course. Better placement would be front sub too..but that is an extreme placement.
Your friend probably competed or knew someone who competed in the 80's and 90's when rear fill was considered standard practice, but true stereo sound comes from the front.

You're right-on, but I just said that using some of your exact words.

glad I could help. hope he likes the results.

I'm always confused where people's concern for their passenger's sound comes from. :

For one thing, I'm probably the biggest car audio freak in the world... and when I'm a passenger in anyone's vehicle, my expectations of any kind of audio at all are completely zero.
...what, are they going to be catering to my needs? (Hey, can you adjust the bass up there a little for me? Hey, I don't feel like listening to this, can you put on that other channel? Hey, do you have Sirius instead perhaps? )

You are installing a stereo in your car because YOU appreciate high end audio.
And - chances are you appreciate it when other people AREN'T in your car.
(how often do you have passengers in your car anyway? If it's more than 10% of the time, congratulations on not having a job, or on your carpooling efforts )

Have you ever been a passenger in the rear seat of someone's car - who HAS had the stereo playing... at 'enthusiast levels'?
"Hey... HEY! WHAT ARE YOU SAYING UP THERE? I CAN'T HEAR YOU! MIND TURNING IT DOWN A LITTLE? There, thanks. I couldn't hear a word you were saying..."

If you have a car full of passengers, and you have the stereo on more than at ambient levels, that's rude, of course.
But secondly, consider that you are facing the windshield, not them, making it hard to converse to begin with... and a set of rear speakers located right behind their head isn't going to help things there.

I'm the world's biggest car audio fan - and I get annoyed when I've got rear speakers, when I'm a passenger in a car... what do you think non car audio enthusiasts think when they are passengers?

Besides - what's stopping the people in the back from hearing your front speakers? (at least as well as they are hearing your voice, right?) Have you installed a glass wall in your car?

Finally - what audacity someone bumming a ride would have to have, to refuse to ride because the sound quality in the rear seat wasn't up to... what... their standards? It would almost be worth it to exclude them just to find this mystical person, and then laugh at them endlessly...

geo isn't married, as you can plainly see.

*grin*

I've been married for over 6 years now... and I got married pretty late in life compared to many.

My wife doesn't like my music, and she also doesn't like loud music when she's a passenger, or has passengers.
...I'd say "you obviously aren't married" if you think your wife would be any different!

my point was that if you give zero consideration to your passenger, it's obviously not a wife.. otherwise she'd smack the snot outta ya.

"my point was that if you give zero consideration to your passenger, it's obviously not a wife.. otherwise she'd smack the snot outta ya."

I concur. I am glad that the wife likes my music and my system, though not to the extent that she's an enthusiast. I'm working on her, though . She doesn't like the heavy rock at face ripping levels, I guess that's where the line is drawn. Maybe some horns and stout midbass drivers will make it to the Ranger. Take a 20 year old truck, throw on some hair metal and it's back to the 80s, baby! Not that I miss them all that much.

My wife won't let me touch her car... she's afraid of what I might do to it, given what I've done to my own cars!

I've done this experiment with her:
Time alignment trick. Try it sometime.

I usually run my system without time alignment, so that it sounds good for both seats - it's more of a personal hangup, a goal that's more unrealistic, so I want to pursue it more.

But anyway - adjust the time alignment so that you are aligned for the driver's seat... or hell, even overadjust it, put that image directly in your point of view if you can.

Then, take a drive with your wife and see if she even notices.

That's my point - and passengers who aren't familiar with your car will notice even less.

oooooh sneaky :)