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i heard it for 2 minutes woot

Ryan from Ohio wrote:Thats what many people will say Bill.
But then again 99.5% of the people have never heard a 4000 combo let alone owned one. Out of the remaining .5% most probably havent listened to one of long enough to understand or appreciate it.
I think out of everyone Mike got the longest listen to it, and that was a whole minute possibly. I got 2 hours a day for a few months :)
As for the JVC sounding better tha the pioneer... The music just seemed more vibrant overall.
Comparing the Mc to all others Ive owned, the Mc was the most vibrant, detailed, pronounced with the absolute least distortion. You could turn the dang thing to 90%+ before you got any audible issues.

And this some how gives you super human hearing and Robo rta? lol you said it perfectly yourself

The music just *seemed* more vibrant overall

No robo ears but some common sense. There is a clear and present difference in sound, not just of loudness.

There some guys on CAF who will dispute such things until they take their last breath.

Bottom line is there is no real proof as SQ is subjective and mainly subjective to our ears and our tastes. Also almost all try to interject the DAC argument. Ive given up on that point. DAC isnt the dividing line it once may have been, its much deeper than that now.

To those who disagree all I can say is stick with your Kraco decks since they sound just as good

neumann wrote:i heard it for 2 minutes woot

And for the loudness it was probably the clearest highs most have ever heard.

Crisp, loud and distortion free is what I like.

Actually I think it was closer to 20 minutes, because remember Ryan I didn't want to get out of the car As for Highs, I could tell a distict difference... And no Bill I'm not saying I have roboears, but you do have to account for the fact that my deafness actually helped this time because I am deaf to bass tones, but highs I pick up clearer than most as that's most all of what I can hear.

Ryan from Ohio wrote:No robo ears but some common sense. There is a clear and present difference in sound, not just of loudness.
There some guys on CAF who will dispute such things until they take their last breath.
Bottom line is there is no real proof as SQ is subjective and mainly subjective to our ears and our tastes. Also almost all try to interject the DAC argument. Ive given up on that point. DAC isnt the dividing line it once may have been, its much deeper than that now.
To those who disagree all I can say is stick with your Kraco decks since they sound just as good

"SQ" and opinion is subjective. Differences in distortion levels and FR are fully measurable and can account for the difference from one deck to another. The differences between McIntosh, JVC and Pioneer decks could be more than just psychoacoustics. Only way to really find out would be to take some measurements.

solacedagony wrote:"SQ" and opinion is subjective. Differences in distortion levels and FR are fully measurable and can account for the difference from one deck to another. The differences between McIntosh, JVC and Pioneer decks could be more than just psychoacoustics. Only way to really find out would be to take some measurements.

Exactly my point. Any radio can sound good and any radio can sound shitty its all in your tuning. you can tell me you can "hear" the difference till you blue in the face, fact is your bias because you spent 1000 dollars on a radio and you like 98% of people can trick themselves into believing its superior because y else would you spend 1000 dollars on a radio?

Michael your deaf regardless of bass tones or high frequency's makes your point invalid as well because your not getting the full experience of the music.

Check this site out lots of good tests.

http://www.tonometric.com/

im apparently Tonedeaf as hell but i can differentiate at 500hz reliable by 3hz.

Bwcad1 wrote:Exactly my point. Any radio can sound good and any radio can sound shitty its all in your tuning. you can tell me you can "hear" the difference till you blue in the face, fact is your bias because you spent 1000 dollars on a radio and you like 98% of people can trick themselves into believing its superior because y else would you spend 1000 dollars on a radio?
Michael your deaf regardless of bass tones or high frequency's makes your point invalid as well because your not getting the full experience of the music.

Well when I do get my next McIntosh we can do some comparisons. I will be getting another 4000 combo, jsut a matter of time and money.

If there is no difference in SQ then I jsut cant understand why all the top ranked guys run the high end SQ decks? I must be missing something? Or maybe they are?

Bwcad1 wrote:Any radio can sound good and any radio can sound shitty its all in your tuning. you can tell me you can "hear" the difference till you blue in the face, fact is your bias because you spent 1000 dollars on a radio and you like 98% of people can trick themselves into believing its superior because y else would you spend 1000 dollars on a radio?

That's an oversight as well. Every piece of equipment has limitations. Maybe that McIntosh deck can output at 1/10th the distortion that the Pioneer or JVC decks can? Obviously, there can be a subconscious bias due to money or brand or product, but that doesn't mean that one product isn't better than another (or sounds different).

For $1000 and McIntosh's reputation, I'd be pretty upset if the equipment they put out ISN'T audibly better. Otherwise, what's the point of owning anything other than flea market stuff if there aren't audible differences?

Ryan from Ohio wrote:Well when I do get my next McIntosh we can do some comparisons. I will be getting another 4000 combo, jsut a matter of time and money.
If there is no difference in SQ then I jsut cant understand why all the top ranked guys run the high end SQ decks? I must be missing something? Or maybe they are?

It'd be really neat if someone had the know-how and equipment to do distortion and power testing on decks to see what you're really ending up with.