This is why I love Toyota

JeremyC · Post by **JeremyC** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:22 pm

Alot of it is luck of the draw. I have owened 5 GM vehicales, and never had a problem. I have had problems with dealer ships, but I was in SC at the time so you do the math. My parents have also had numerous chevy trucks. 1978, 1995, 1999, and a 2002 full size. 1989, 1991, and 1994 blazers, a 1985 window van, and a 1999 surburban. None of which have required anything more than the normal maintance. Then again I have met people who have had everything go wrong with their trucks.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:12 pm

It does seem like Chevy has some quality issues with the newer trucks, you'll notice that the "longest-lasting, blah blah blah trucks on the road" claim is a survey based on the percentage of Chevy trucks on the road compared to the number sold, and the survey goes back to 1984. Not really a fair comparison since Ford trucks are the truck of choice of contractors and construction workers, who rack up miles on trucks very quickly and of course, retire them earlier. Chevy will get their update in 07 I think, let's just hope the new trucks are drastically different looking than the current squinty-eyed Silverado look *shudder*. The Zeta platform got shoved off by GM so that they can "refresh" their truck and SUV lineup (as in, no new platform, same open box chassis, same engine lineup, transmission, probably a minor grill change and the same outdated, drawn with a framing square interior). So now Camaro fans likely aren't going to see one until 2010+, and they've given Bob Lutz hell in his blogs because of it. Ford is currently the #1 light duty truck by JD Power and numerous other surveyors, in nearly all categories. Their modular engine lineup is stellar, it has been on Wards Top 10 engine list since it was introduced. Their F250 and 350 diesels aren't doing so well due to changes in the Powerstroke that still have to have the kinks ironed out. Dodge diesels rule the roost in mechanical quality for HD trucks, I don't think any truck fan regardless of preference can knock a Cummins diesel, it's rock solid. Things are good for American trucks, though. Toyotas trucks are good, but the Titan is crapola for reliability.

"Whenever someone makes a statement like that, I always ask for data Where is it and how can I examine it to make an educated decision?"

I used to have the link, but I don't anymore. It was their current President and CEO Takeo Fukui that made the statement, I can't remember what conference it was at, though. You could find it as easily as me, sorry to say, I'll try to remember his exact words. FYI, though, if you're looking for data, don't get your hopes up, he simply made a statement that there was little quality difference between automobile manufacturers. I doubt Honda would want to release that information anyway since they've seen a quality slump across the board over the last few years.

JeremyC · Post by **JeremyC** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:06 pm

Jonathan wrote: Not really a fair comparison since Ford trucks are the truck of choice of contractors and construction workers, who rack up miles on trucks very quickly and of course, retire them earlier.

I do agree that contractors go thru trucks quickly, you can tell by what my dad has gone thru in the last 15 years. (I am sure I left out a few). But from my experiance it about 50/50 ford / chevy were I grew up. If anything chevy might have a slight edge with the contractors, and construction workers I know. Then again thats not going from a national average, thats just the people I have worked for or with. (most of tulsa it seems)

I do agree chevy needs to get its butt in gear. Their trucks, though nice, could be better. Especially in the engine department. I hated to see then get rid of the 350, and 4.3. I know they were both dated, and in need of a new design, but those motors will be hard to beat, especially in the long run.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:13 pm

It's all location, dealers, many factors. All you see down here is Fords. You may see a Chevy here and there, but they aren't common, really I haven't seen that many in Georgia in general.

JeremyC · Post by **JeremyC** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:19 pm

Yeah I can agree with that. In tulsa there is a ford dealer within about 2 miles of every chevy dealer. We are even home to the ford glass plant. So its a given it will be pretty close.

Ryan from Ohio · Post by **Ryan from Ohio** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:25 pm

From my understanding International/Navistar will be selling a motor to Ford and other truck companies. There are two version currently a V8 and a Split Pin V6.

Stay FAR FAR FAR away from the Diesel Split Pin V6! They are looking at Ford, The US ARMY and delivery style trucks.

Another vehicle to steer clear of is the GT40 Ford. Numerous problems/recalls. Especially leaking on the main bearing seal on the tranny side.

Lastly the new Corvette Z06 with the LS-7 motor. Lets just say the 150 or so that were out there are not any longer. The cranks are sitting on the dock at my work

William from NOLA · Post by **William from NOLA** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:00 pm

Another vehicle to steer clear of is the GT40 Ford.

ok I will

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:03 pm

International is already making the current Ford diesels, are you talking about a possible engine for the light duty trucks when the ULEV II diesel regs come into play? I think Ford is planning a new diesel for next model Super Duty trucks, but it's not a different diesel, just a stroked version of their current model designed for more power and fuel economy (just hearsay, though, I think it was a 6.4L twin turbo concept). Far as the Split Pin, it seems like the smaller the diesel International makes, the worse it is <shrugs>

Of all the new trucks, I'm really wondering about the longevity of the Honda Ridgeline truck design. Unibody combined with a ladder style truck. They weren't the first to do this, Ford did the same in the early 60s with the F100 and called it the Styleside, to give a smoother look since the cab integrated with the bed. Later they ditched it because they found that with heavy loads, the bed flexed at a different rate than the cab, and that corrosion from the bed or fenders could transfer to the cab. The Honda is still subject to the exact same problem, although the chassis is a bit stronger, but it also has independant rear suspension and no stabilizers to aid the truck during towing. Plus the issues with the engine, the Ridgeline is using an anemic V6 designed for higher RPM pull and doesn't wake up until about 3,000 RPM or so, the engine is horizontally opposed, and is AWD, but primarily FWD unless traction slips, and can only apply torque to the rear wheels to a certain speed. Then there is an independant rear suspension, which rides well, but isn't rugged nor does it do well off roadd, and now you have 4 CV axles to have to worry about and a rear end alignment, which have never been rugged to begin with and don't handle flex worth a crap. Off road reviewers have already said it makes a lot of strange noises from the chassis under load, and Honda is trying their best to advertise this as a tough truck since it's based off their minivan platform. They could surprise me, but for a truck (assuming the buyer uses it for a truck, which most of them won't) it just doesn't seem like a good engineering exercise.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:06 pm

"Another vehicle to steer clear of is the GT40 Ford. Numerous problems/recalls. Especially leaking on the main bearing seal on the tranny side."

I don't think too many of us have to worry about that one. Assuming I had the bread for a car that expensive, I'd get a 911 Turbo.

William from NOLA · Post by **William from NOLA** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:10 pm

Jonathan wrote:"Another vehicle to steer clear of is the GT40 Ford. Numerous problems/recalls. Especially leaking on the main bearing seal on the tranny side."

I don't think too many of us have to worry about that one. Assuming I had the bread for a car that expensive, I'd get a 911 Turbo.

You can get two 911 Turbo's with cash left over for this local dealer's asking price for a GT40.

"it's been here for 11 months. I've never even seen anybody sit in it" said the salesman. my thoughts: *sarcastically* "Gee I wonder why..."