ENVYMYZ wrote:Critical = Anal.
If it's not top of the line, then I dont want it is my theory.
I think you are missing my point... (and my continued quote below seems to back it up)
"Top of the line" - by
whose standard?
Which aspect of the deck do you want to be "top of the line?"
Or do you just want a head unit that other people get in your car and go "Duude... I've heard good things about that one."
Or do you just want people to get in your car and go "Duude... that's an expensive deck."
What do you want your HU to do for YOU, is all I'm asking. ]But back to Eclipse...anyone that really knows Eclipse knows that it was THE headunit to have in the 90's. They have always been a speciality brand found at specialty shops and dealers. [/quote]Perhaps in your area it was "the" head unit to have - all areas have their trends. In the late 80's/early 90's, Orion was the amp and sub brand "to have" in my area. In other people's area not far from here, Pioneer was the king (and often for other reasons - which is my point of this whole ramble
). And Alpine's black amps preceding their V12 line are legendary even today - very popular with SQ competitors (Remember Todd Matsubara?), prompted me to invest in the V12's first year of release (1995?)
In fact, recalling back to top IASCA finishers throughout the 90's, Eclipse wasn't nearly as popular as an Alpine - particularly with the continuing evolution of their F#1 status line.
And really, the hot trend in the later part of the 90's was copper chassis (remember that one?)... Nakamichi and Denon for the uber elitists. :happy055: (People still are seeking out the DenonFords, right? :help: )
I'm not knocking either Eclipse, nor local trends - but I would knock any temptation to generalize about a brand, without significant insight backwards into it's operation - particularly with such a large, Japanese corporate entity such as Fujitsu Ten. Their priority always has been, and always will be to make money. It's perfectly logical - in fact, a windfall victory - for them to expand their customer base into mainstream stores. They are a corporation, not a friend to the little guy.
There have been rumblings about Eclipses quality going down for a while now, and with the advent of them being sold at Circuit City as of January 2006, it only makes sense that the quality will go down. They are mass marketed now which means they want to push sales, and when that happens quality usually suffers. Im not even going to start getting into all the issues im having with my 8445 that has already been "repaired" once, 1 month after purchasing it. It still has problems and will need to be replaced.
Fujitsu Ten has always been an outsourcing company, and traditionally they've struck some great relationships. TC Sounds manufacturing their subwoofers - that's why they are great, not because Eclipse had their hands in it. I believe they build electronics in house, and the Japanese are traditionally good at electronics manufacturing. But they are a corporation - they aren't building HR-100's and Thesis amps... they just build decent amps.
And decent HU's.
And now they are increasing their manufacturing volumes.
Probably stressing the limits of their manufacturing lines.
Probably they realize this.
Probably they'll implement changes to restore the quality to what it once was. Someday.
Probably this is all speculation though.
I wouldn't get hung up on a brand name - even with Alpine, there is disappointment in some of their models. Even with Pioneer. Hell, even with Nakamichi and McIntosh (RIP though their car line may be).
So again, I guess-
Specifically what features, or what specs/measurements do you wish your HU to excel at? And do you want "bang for the buck" (meeting your requirement at a price point you can brag about), or do you want "I spent more than you spent" (meeting your requirement at a price point you can brag about)?
Hopefully that clarifies.
It might help to expand at what point in the 1990's you came into car audio, for the rest of us old-timers (and there are a lot of us here on this forum
) to place your point of reference?
[quote="ENVYMYZ"]Critical = Anal.
If it's not top of the line, then I dont want it is my theory. [/quote]
I think you are missing my point... (and my continued quote below seems to back it up)
"Top of the line" - by [i]whose standard?
Which aspect[/i] of the deck do you want to be "top of the line?"
Or do you just want a head unit that other people get in your car and go "Duude... I've heard good things about that one."
Or do you just want people to get in your car and go "Duude... that's an expensive deck."
What do you want your HU to do for YOU, is all I'm asking. ]But back to Eclipse...anyone that really knows Eclipse knows that it was THE headunit to have in the 90's. They have always been a speciality brand found at specialty shops and dealers. [/quote]Perhaps in your area it was "the" head unit to have - all areas have their trends. In the late 80's/early 90's, Orion was the amp and sub brand "to have" in my area. In other people's area not far from here, Pioneer was the king (and often for other reasons - which is my point of this whole ramble :p ). And Alpine's black amps preceding their V12 line are legendary even today - very popular with SQ competitors (Remember Todd Matsubara?), prompted me to invest in the V12's first year of release (1995?)
In fact, recalling back to top IASCA finishers throughout the 90's, Eclipse wasn't nearly as popular as an Alpine - particularly with the continuing evolution of their F#1 status line.
And really, the hot trend in the later part of the 90's was copper chassis (remember that one?)... Nakamichi and Denon for the uber elitists. :happy055: (People still are seeking out the DenonFords, right? :help: )
I'm not knocking either Eclipse, nor local trends - but I would knock any temptation to generalize about a brand, without significant insight backwards into it's operation - particularly with such a large, Japanese corporate entity such as Fujitsu Ten. Their priority always has been, and always will be to make money. It's perfectly logical - in fact, a windfall victory - for them to expand their customer base into mainstream stores. They are a corporation, not a friend to the little guy. ;)
[quote]There have been rumblings about Eclipses quality going down for a while now, and with the advent of them being sold at Circuit City as of January 2006, it only makes sense that the quality will go down. They are mass marketed now which means they want to push sales, and when that happens quality usually suffers. Im not even going to start getting into all the issues im having with my 8445 that has already been "repaired" once, 1 month after purchasing it. It still has problems and will need to be replaced.
:banghead [/quote]
Fujitsu Ten has always been an outsourcing company, and traditionally they've struck some great relationships. TC Sounds manufacturing their subwoofers - that's why they are great, not because Eclipse had their hands in it. I believe they build electronics in house, and the Japanese are traditionally good at electronics manufacturing. But they are a corporation - they aren't building HR-100's and Thesis amps... they just build decent amps.
And decent HU's.
And now they are increasing their manufacturing volumes.
Probably stressing the limits of their manufacturing lines.
Probably they realize this.
Probably they'll implement changes to restore the quality to what it once was. Someday.
Probably this is all speculation though. ;)
I wouldn't get hung up on a brand name - even with Alpine, there is disappointment in some of their models. Even with Pioneer. Hell, even with Nakamichi and McIntosh (RIP though their car line may be).
So again, I guess-
Specifically what features, or what specs/measurements do you wish your HU to excel at? And do you want "bang for the buck" (meeting your requirement at a price point you can brag about), or do you want "I spent more than you spent" (meeting your requirement at a price point you can brag about)?
Hopefully that clarifies.
It might help to expand at what point in the 1990's you came into car audio, for the rest of us old-timers (and there are a lot of us here on this forum :p ) to place your point of reference?