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Cheap but good 2ch amp and 1ch mono

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Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Cheap but good 2ch amp and 1ch mono

by GlassWolf » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:46 am

looking at that pdf I have no idea where they get those power ratings.
The 4 ohm 14.4VDC rating is CEA rated, but no mention of rating standard for the other specs.
Only way to produce more power like that is to draw more current (more than 1:1 with the voltage)

by chodecz » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:47 pm

Well for the MTX example, yes.

But what about Kicker, who claim RMS figures for both input voltages.

by GlassWolf » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:42 pm

the trick here is to figure out how they define "dynamic power"

by chodecz » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:05 pm

Thanks for the very good advice and information Glasswolf and JeremyC.

Something doesn't ring true though. I'm confused, either two major amp companies are lying about specs, or your theory is incorrect?

Read page 12 of this Kicker manual...
http://www.kicker.com/06/tech-support/m ... 20Amps.pdf

KX350.2 - RMS wattage @ 14.4VDC is approx. 36% more than @ 12.5VDC.
KX450.2 - RMS wattage @ 14.4VDC is approx. 40% more than @ 12.5VDC.
KX550.2 - RMS wattage @ 14.4VDC is approx. 44% more than @ 12.5VDC.

And so on.

Then page 3 of this MTX manual...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/con2000/Th ... 02_942.pdf

Thunder342 - Dynamic wattage @ 14.4VDC is approx. 30% more than RMS @ 12.5VDC.
Thunder502 - Dynamic wattage @ 14.4VDC is approx. 28% more than RMS @ 12.5VDC.
Thunder942 - Dynamic wattage @ 14.4VDC is approx. 25% more than RMS @ 12.5VDC.

It seems the Kicker's increase in efficiency with the higher model, whereas the opposite occurs in the MTX amps.

I'm not saying your theory is wrong in anyway Glasswolf, maybe newer amps are more efficient then the ones of those when your theory was made. Don't get me wrong please Glasswolf, your a genius when it comes to this subject, but I would like to know who is right in this case, its probably the amp companies exaggerating results. But take a couple of minutes of your time to look at those manuals and tell me what you think is the reason for the difference in what your saying and what the amp companies claim.

Thanks for your time.

by GlassWolf » Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:51 am

most people don't realize just how much power it really takes to make an audible difference. If you have a 1200 watt amp, you'd think a 1500 watt amp would be a big increase in power. After all, that's 300 more watts and that is a substantial amount of power by itself. More than most people have driving their entire front/rear speakers.
When you consider the % increase though, you see it isn't much of a gain and that's why people looking for bigger amps to get more bas are often very disappointed in the results, then blame the amplifiers for being "overrated."

by JeremyC » Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:15 am

GlassWolf wrote:The result of a 20% increase in power is barely audible, if at all, especially when considering the dynamic nature of music to begin with.

Yeah Glass is right. Which brings me to this. Why worry about such small diffrences in RMS. Especially since its not enough to hear a diffrence?

by GlassWolf » Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:04 pm

I'm not sure what they're thinking then, but also remember as you go up in power (higher voltage, lower load, etc) you lose more to heat, so the calculation is never exact, and you still need to figure for efficiency which can affect input power to output power by as much as sixty percent.

Keep in mind when you talk about RMS power ratings though, you're talking about continuous power at full volume with a non-reactive load, and a tone generator running 20-20,000Hz pink noise. In short, the power you'll actually put to speakers at normal listening volumes with music playing is a small fraction of that power rating in reality. The rest is just dynamic headroom.

With that in mind, it's easier to talk about percentage differences when talking about power differences of an amp with an unregulated power supply at 12 or 14 volts than it is to ask about "how much power" you'll really get.

If you have such an amp, you'll get 20% more power (approximately) at 14.4VDC than you will at 12VDC.

That's what you really want to know.

Then you can figure that twice the actual power to a speaker yields a +3dB increase in volume. This is the same increase as adding a second identical speaker without increasing the power at all.
A +10dB increase in output is equal to double the audible volume, or increasing power by a factor of ten.

The result of a 20% increase in power is barely audible, if at all, especially when considering the dynamic nature of music to begin with.

by chodecz » Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:10 pm

I have also just looked at a Kicker manual for the kx350.2

It states 2 x 70w RMS @ 4 ohms @ 12.5VDC, and 2 x 110w RMS @ 4 ohms @ 14.4VDC.

If i do the calculation you said... 70 / 12.5 = 5.6, 5.6 x 14.4 = 80.64w RMS!

What am I to believe now?? Do Kicker print false (exaggerated) specs???

by chodecz » Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:38 pm

Thank you Glasswolf (yet again) :) .

Ok so I do 90 / 12 = 7.2 amperage drawn, then 7.2 x 14.4 = 103.68w RMS @ 14.4VDC.

So why does the manual state "Dynamic power = 2 x 125 @ 14.4VDC"???? When you said that this was the RMS??

by GlassWolf » Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:22 pm

that is RMS.
they mean dynamic in this case because power fluctuates with voltage. unregulated power supply.
basically take the RMS power (say 90 watts) and divide by the voltage (12.5)
the result is the amperage drawn.
multiply that amperage by the new voltage (14.4V) and you have your wattage (RMS) @ 14.4VDC.

example, my amp is rated at 1000 watts @ 4 ohms @ 12VDC
that's 83.33333 amps
so, with an unreg'ed power supply @ 14.4VDC, the amp puts out:
(83.33333*14.4 =) 1200 watts RMS
(rated anyway.)

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