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Here's another plot w/o the lowpass filter:

[url]http://home.comcast.net/~guppyrig/wsb/media/322068/site1085.JPG[/url]

and here's the same, but anechoic(no cabin gain):

[url]http://home.comcast.net/~guppyrig/wsb/media/322068/site1086.JPG[/url]

Yep, I agree. Anechoic response plots aren't very helpful. From looking at the last plot, one would think the 10w0 would be the best choice, but I can tell you from experience it doesn't play very low w/o help from a PEQ.

To give you an idea of how "flat" the sealed curves really are here's my 10w3's(3.25 ft^3 common @ 28Hz, green) along with the others:

[url]http://home.comcast.net/~guppyrig/wsb/media/322068/site1087.JPG[/url]

I'm pretty sure those plots aren't very accurate below 30 Hz as my 10w3's low end extension doesn't seem as good as what the plot would indicate.

I figure the actual response is somewhere between the anechoic plots and those modeled with cabin gain. Still WinISD is the best thing I have so far especially since I don't have the equipment necessary to accurately measure my vehicle's transfer function.

-Fishy

Actually the new one allows you to use a linkwitz transform to model cabin gain. You can also change other parameters like air density, relative humidty, temperature, etc. Unfortunately you only get reliable numbers with the gain plot while using that transform, so accurate in-car SPL predictions aren't really possible.

Here's a gain plot for 4 drivers in .57 ft^3 with an 80 Hz 12 dB/oct lowpass(butterworth) and an aproximation of my Explorer's cabin gain(linkwitz transform):

[url]http://home.comcast.net/~guppyrig/wsb/media/322068/site1084.JPG[/url]

pink = old Koda 10
light blue = new Koda 10d8
yellow = 10w0-4
white = IDQ 10d2

According to WinISD .57 ft^3 is probably too much airspace for the Koda 10d8 as its Qtc is .707 in .444 ft^3. I guess the new Kodas can play well in some awfully small enclosures. The IDQ 10 looks to have the most "symmetrical" curve.

If anyone is interested in the new WinISD you can get it here:

[url]http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro[/url]

and this thread

[url]http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=072900#000000[/url]

explains how to model your vehicle's aproximate cabin gain using a linkwitz transform.

-Fishy

[note] I know those plots are still pretty crude as I doubt any of those drivers will yield responses that low, but still, its not a bad tool for comparing subs if you take the results with a grain of salt.

If anyone has any suggestions for better, FREE, software I'd be glad to hear them.

winISD is useless. it's anechoic. doesn't take environment into account at all. very basic software. if you insist on graphing results using software, consider finding better applications that account for cabin gain, transfer function, etc.
I don't really like winISD

Nice Job... :thumbsup

Yeah I wish Ascendant made a 10. The only other sub I've found that would work well would be the the new Koda 10d8's, or maybe d4's although 500 watts might be a bit much. The new ones aren't out yet and Adire hasn't released any dimensions, but the old Kodas only have a 4.75" mounting depth. They are a bit wider though and would require a 1/4" spacer to clear a round stiffening "ridge" on the stealth. According to WinISD the old Kodas wouldn't play as low as the 10w0 in .6 ft^3 and although the new ones will, are a bit pricey at $269. At this point an IDQ seems to be my best option.

I guess I can always order one while in Colorado.

:p

-Fishy

ascendant audio atlas 12. cheap on close out. far far better than a W0

I don't really need more output.

You can barely hear yourself scream when those 10w3's are cranked. I plan on going sealed as I'm a bit sick of the "hump" around 40-50 Hz. Although the 10w3's ported can sound great with some good old fashioned rock(Pink Floyd, etc.) the peaky response make it awfully difficult to enjoy any classical tracks, even with the box tuned as low as it is(28 Hz).

One IDmax 12d2 has nearly twice the Xmax and more than twice the effective piston area as one 10w3d2(how I don't know). I figure with twice the power one IDmax(1000 vs 250 each) will be able to outplay the JL's even going sealed and sound a lot better while doing so. If its not enough I can always go ported, but I'd hate to give up the 5" or so extra storage space in the back of the Explorer. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it is.

:)

Yeah, I'm not sure it'd be worth the $150 to pick up a IDQ10 for the stealth, but after two months I think I may be jonesin for more bass and that single 10w0 probably won't fit the bill.

-Fishy

man that idmax is going to be a GREAT choice, port it ,send it its 1000rms or close and you WILL notice a difirence, it should be able to outdisplace those 10's of youres. As far as a temporary IDQ i wouldnt do it UNELSS you got the money and it seems like its going to be a bit of work to get it in that stealth box, so just throw it in a regular box unless you dont want it to be "so" stealth.

Thanks guys.

Hey, I'm going to be gone to Colorado for a couple months and will be leaving the 10w3 box at home(need the space). Was thinking about possibly upgrading the w0 to an IDQ 10d2 and wait on the IDmax. Won't do me much good w/o a box. The IDQ has about 1/8th inch less mounting depth so should fit ok, but unfortunately it vents its voice coil out the bottom of the motor unlike the 10w0 which vents out the collar. The w0 is a tight fit so I may have as little as 1/4" airspace behind the IDQ's motor. A spacer might be an option but would require bending out panel and grill a bit to give that sub room to move.

Exactly how little space would I be able to get away with? I've heard 3/4" is a good rule of thumb for rear vented drivers, but the IDQ will only be getting about 250 watts(its rating) and airflow inhibiting polyfill shouldn't be necessary as this sub plays quite well in .6 ft^3.

Any suggestions?

thanks in advance

-Fishy

looks great